Old McPherson lathe for learner?

[419]

Well, this is certainly well within my budget for a used machine, but might be a little short on some features I want. Then again, it does wood as well, so I could sell my wood lathe and free up some space. And I'd get a lot more than $60 for my wood lathe, so it'd be a win all round.

Home made wood and metal Lath complete with all attachments good working condition. $60.


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...2111112l%22%7D

[kafie1980]

You are kidding right?

That is a backyard wood turners lathe.

You can do better with an electric drill mounted in a vice

[OxxAndBert]

The ad is somewhat accurate - there is definitely wood and metal in that lathe

Steve

[419]

You are kidding right?

Definitely!

Although I might have a different attitude if it had a brushless motor.

[419]

Why I’m leaning towards a new lathe, but still sort of thinking about an old one.


This thread and my intentions started out looking for a cheap old metal lathe, as that seemed a good way to dip my toe into the water on something that I mightn’t be able to use properly or mightn’t pursue for other reasons.


Thanks to the previous advice of other members in this thread and the marvels of the internet on how to inspect a used lathe, I realise that I have no idea what I’d be looking at and might be better off taking a lottery ticket to fund a new machine rather than gambling on an old one.


The problem with the new ones is that I’ve gone through the process akin to buying a car with a budget of, say, $15,000 and then finding that for another $2,000 I can get some upgrade and so on until I’ve settled on a $25,000 car which I can’t afford. And essentially does the same job as the $15,000 car I started with, minus some bells and whistles.


A new Sieg seems to be the best value for money, if only because they seem to be of fairly consistent quality compared with similar machines out of China and in light of the comments made in this thread by more knowledgeable and experienced lathe users and elsewhere on the internet. The current SC3 costs a few hundred dollars more than the base model I started looking at but has useful extra features, but it seems to retail around $1,200 bare to $1,400 with starter kit accessories which is more than I can really justify for occasional use. However, for about half as much again I can get a different Sieg lathe with a milling machine package, which is attractive.


Except I’ve just done the $15,000 to $25,000 car process and come back to earth.


Maybe I should just stick to the cheapest Sieg lathe and learn on that and, if it turns out I don’t like it or can’t use it properly, sell it for a smaller loss than a more expensive machine. Conversely, there will be no loss if I buy a more expensive Sieg and like it and keep it.


And round and round in circles I go, while still looking at Facebook Marketplace and Gumtree hoping to find this immaculate, complete and fully accessorized one owner old lathe lovingly maintained by an obsessive recently deceased steam engine model maker being sold for peanuts by his executors with no idea of what they have, and I get there before the stampede of other vultures hoping to capitalize on the executors’ ignorance.


Or, on the rare occasions I actually need something made on a lathe, I could just take it to a machinist and have it competently made. But where’s the fun and satisfaction in that?

[kafie1980]

There is always going to be a better car and there is always going to be a better lathe than the one you will buy.

Realistically speaking, expecting to buy a quality lathe for the price of a new Sieg lathe is a bit far fetched.

Yes, we do come across such opportunities in life (like someone buying a Schaublin for less than a slab of your favourite beer) but only when we are not looking for them. Such is life.

If you need/want a lathe today, then buy the lathe you can afford, even if it’s a Sieg, who cares, its your lathe. Use it as a tool to learn and make mistakes, even if you crash it, or trash it, it will be a valuable experience. And one benefit buying a new machine is you will have a baseline even if is based on very low quality standards.

[419]

Realistically speaking, expecting to buy a quality lathe for the price of a new Sieg lathe is a bit far fetched.

Thanks. That reinforces my inclination towards a new Sieg.

If you need/want a lathe today, then buy the lathe you can afford, even if it’s a Sieg, who cares, its your lathe. Use it as a tool to learn and make mistakes, even if you crash it, or trash it, it will be a valuable experience.

Ditto.

And one benefit buying a new machine is you will have a baseline even if is based on very low quality standards.

Yeah, but the difficulty might be distinguishing between my and the machine's low quality standards.

I do hope you realise that I am going to be using your post to persuade Her Indoors that I need to buy a Sieg, and fairly quickly.

More seriously, the essential problem is balancing the occasional likely use against the purchase price. I'm not desperately short of a quid, but equally I need to be able to justify spending largish amounts like the Sieg price against the benefit it provides. On the other hand, if I don't buy it this will just be more money to go to my kids after I die and there's a fair chance my son will use it to buy himself a metal lathe and other tools I've denied myself, so f#$% him getting something I reckon I deserve. Either way, he ends up with a lathe, but if I buy it now I get to use it.

EDIT: Thank you for clarifying my muddled circular thinking. I am not sure my son would share my thanks, but he'll never know what we've done.

[419]

Next step, now that it looks like I'm committed to not telling Her Indoors about buying stuff she's not interested in.

There is some attraction in this lathe and mill package https://www.ausee.com.au/shop/item.aspx?itemid=4685 but, among other things, I'm confused by the specs that it has 'Power rating 550W / Output 350W'. So is it just a 350W machine?

This looks to me to be the best buy for my novice and maybe eventually a little more advanced purposes. https://www.ausee.com.au/shop/item.aspx?itemid=251

If I added this milling vice https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L2...iABEgIIifD_BwE should this cover my very basic requirements for occasional minor mill work?

[BaronJ]

Hi Damian,

I've just been and had a look at the lathe + mill package ! They are quite nice machines and quite capable of good work. The learning process begins the moment you make the decision to buy.

I very rapidly discovered that I found the need to make tools in order to make tools ! As an example, I wanted to learn how to sharpen drills properly. So I started by making simple drill grinding jigs, then progressed to more complex ones. I finally found a design on the internet which I liked, so I set to and built one.

All this adds to the learning experience and the great satisfaction of producing something useful.

[kafie1980]

The sensible thing to do is to visit the Ausee showroom/warehouse in person as I see your location is set to Melbourne. While you are there, bring along a measuring tape and pre-think what size work you intend on doing on the lathe. This will also give you a chance to look at the machines in real life, trust me things look a lot smaller or larger in real life compared to a video or a photo. It will also give you a first hand impression on how you feel about the machines.

The combo package is the old 350w brushed motor and old control board along with other differences I mentioned several post’s before. It’s basically a “warehouse clearance deal” for the way I look at it as these are outdated models, not outdated last year, outdated 10 years ago although Sieg still supplies them and provides provides parts.

The Sieg SC3 + starter pack is better package IMO.

One point I do wish to make is that the way I look at the SC3 is that it’s literally a long bed version of the SC2, all else is the same AFAIK. The SC4 is the proper next size up machine.

Buy the lathe first and leave the vertical slide option for later when you see the need for milling in the future.

[419]

The sensible thing to do

Sensible? Moi!

is to visit the Ausee showroom/warehouse in person as I see your location is set to Melbourne. While you are there, bring along a measuring tape and pre-think what size work you intend on doing on the lathe. This will also give you a chance to look at the machines in real life, trust me things look a lot smaller or larger in real life compared to a video or a photo. It will also give you a first hand impression on how you feel about the machines.

This could work in the coming week as I can combine it with a trip to Hare & Forbes in nearby Dandenong for other stuff. As if I need an excuse to look at tools.

The combo package is the old 350w brushed motor and old control board along with other differences I mentioned several post’s before. It’s basically a “warehouse clearance deal” for the way I look at it as these are outdated models, not outdated last year, outdated 10 years ago although Sieg still supplies them and provides provides parts.

Thanks again. That's off the list.

The Sieg SC3 + starter pack is better package IMO.

One point I do wish to make is that the way I look at the SC3 is that it’s literally a long bed version of the SC2, all else is the same AFAIK.

I think the extra 4" or so on the SC3 could be very useful. Odds are that most of what I'll be doing will be at the chuck jaws end, but for the relatively small extra money now it seems better to go for the longer bed.

Only, and minor, problem I have with the starter pack is that I already have some items in it, being a new in box MT2 B 16 Drill chuck and arbor for a mini wood lathe which chuck I haven't needed to use so far, and I'm not sure why the HSS drill set would be better than my cobalt ones, but for the $160 or so difference between the base lathe and the starter pack it still works out cheaper than buying the base lathe and separately the other bits I don't already have.

As an aside, when I was looking today for the new MT2 drill chuck I thought I still had and do have with my rarely used mini-wood lathe, I had a brain fart and looked at my cast iron bed mini wood lathe with about 400mm between centres and measured up my smaller cross slide vice and, lo and behold, it's just about the right height and easily shimmed to hold a cutting tool against a workpiece, which could do double duty with suitable amendments as a metal lathe. The I guessed the likely cost of a 4 jaw chuck and sundry other bits and pieces and especially finding and fitting the new pulley(s) to get the current wood lathe minimum speed below 650 RPM and the endless work involved in making a silk purse out of a sow's ear and, not surprisingly, any Sieg looks like really good value to avoid all that and have something that will do a much better job out of the box.

The SC4 is the proper next size up machine.

Nice, but I can't justify the extra money for that next level.

Buy the lathe first and leave the vertical slide option for later when you see the need for milling in the future.

As matters stand, I'm settled on the Sieg SC3 Starter Pack, but unless there's a major increase in price will probably hold off for the time being until I have a project that needs a lathe, if only to clear some other projects out of my workshop.

[419]

Hi Baron J.

I've just been and had a look at the lathe + mill package ! They are quite nice machines and quite capable of good work. The learning process begins the moment you make the decision to buy.

Yeah, that's what I thought, but you will see from kafie1980's last post that he scotched that idea and that the SC3 starter pack is a better idea. But who knows what Ausee might have out the back of the showroom if I turn up with cash and hungry to buy? This is, of course, on the wildly outdated assumption that retailers nowadays actually prefer selling their products to selling finance.

I very rapidly discovered that I found the need to make tools in order to make tools ! As an example, I wanted to learn how to sharpen drills properly. So I started by making simple drill grinding jigs, then progressed to more complex ones. I finally found a design on the internet which I liked, so I set to and built one.

All this adds to the learning experience and the great satisfaction of producing something useful.

That's where I like to think I'm headed. Or maybe just accumulating an impressive array of tools I could use when confronted by an unexpected need.

Damian

[419]

Well, this thread https://metalworkforums.com/f65/t209...v-lathe-faults , and other similar comments and reviews I've seen on the internet for hobby machines isn't exactly filling me with confidence that a new machine from China is guaranteed to be better built and ready to work out of the box than an old clunker bought for a fraction of the price off Facebook Marketplace or Gumtree.

The people making these comments are obviously well qualified and very experienced machinists and are judging the machine by those standards rather than the ignorant standards of a novice like me.

Assuming I stick with Sieg, can I reasonably assume that it'll do what I want out of the box or do I need to allow for pulling it apart and getting it to specification, which is something I have neither the skill nor interest to do?

[kafie1980]

The PV210V lathe example is a typical online shopping experience from sellers that simply drop ship bottom of the barrel products into the country.

Sieg is no better or worse, however the advantage is the local supplier Ausee and I asked you to visit them before purchasing so you can be confident to know what you are buying. If your lathe has a defect out of the box then they will have to provide replacements or repairs.

With an online seller you will probably only get a partial refund or some replacement parts.

Fixing machines is part of the journey on keeping machines in spec. You are the driver and you are the mechanic. Most of us have pulled apart our machines and put them back together. It helps understanding how the machines work and how they can be adjusted to give us optimal results.

When you first thought of buying a lathe, what was your intention of getting one?

Did you want to make something in particular?

Do you have any other tools?

Have you ever done an oil change on your car? Jumped a vehicle? Replaced a car battery?

Have you ever pulled something mechanical apart to understand how it works?

Do you mind having grease under your finger nails? Cuts on your finger tips? Long hours standing and operating a machine?

If thats you then a running a lathe should not be much effort.

[419]

The PV210V lathe example is a typical online shopping experience from sellers that simply drop ship bottom of the barrel products into the country.

Sieg is no better or worse, however the advantage is the local supplier Ausee and I asked you to visit them before purchasing so you can be confident to know what you are buying. If your lathe has a defect out of the box then they will have to provide replacements or repairs.

With an online seller you will probably only get a partial refund or some replacement parts.

Thank you for that. Reassures me that buying from Ausee is as good as I'm going to get. I wouldn't buy anything like this price level of lathe or other machine or tool online as I want to see what I'm buying and test out its operation, even if I don't really know what I'm doing. There are some basics like slop in bearings and threads etc and just general standard of precision and finish that you don't need to be an expert to identify and which can give you a fair indication of the quality of the machine or tool.

There's also the issue highlighted by your reference to online purchases that many of the negative online comments and reviews I've seen were clearly or likely related to online purchases with poorly presented items in damaged boxes on arrival, which shouldn't be the case with buying direct from a seller like Ausee.

Fixing machines is part of the journey on keeping machines in spec. You are the driver and you are the mechanic. Most of us have pulled apart our machines and put them back together. It helps understanding how the machines work and how they can be adjusted to give us optimal results.

When you first thought of buying a lathe, what was your intention of getting one?

Did you want to make something in particular?

Do you have any other tools?

Have you ever done an oil change on your car? Jumped a vehicle? Replaced a car battery?

Have you ever pulled something mechanical apart to understand how it works?

Do you mind having grease under your finger nails? Cuts on your finger tips? Long hours standing and operating a machine?

If thats you then a running a lathe should not be much effort.

I've done plenty of work on cars, outboards and small engines including rebuilding motors after a complete teardown and lots of other stuff I can't be bothered doing now (= also too old to be crawling around on a creeper under a car on winter nights and maybe not so confident dropping a full gearbox and bell housing onto my ageing chest and lifting it back up again) such as replacing car clutches from the flywheel and everything in between to replacing and or modifying the pedal box and repairing the firewall in Fords which are particularly poorly engineered in those areas for their manual versions since the XE series, along with brakes from the pads to the master cylinder, and so on. Plus I have a fair collection of basic precision tools that would be handy in setting up the lathe

Looks like I should get on top of the Sieg without too much trouble.

I'm planning a trip to Ausee in the near future, which will fit in with some stuff I want from Hare and Forbes in Dandenong.

Thank you again for all your detailed advice.