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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,271

    Default My consolidated workshop thread.

    I figured that with the arrival of a new machine, I shouldn't start yet another thread ill fail to update and instead keep all the progress or otherwise in here.

    CVA Lathe - Pretty much finished with its solid compound but i dont think aluminium was a great choice it seems to have more harmonic issues than before, ill devise a more rigorous test before i go making it again.

    DSG Lathe - Need to make a new fastlock backplate, I got drawings off a nice guy on PM so now i just have to spring for a 12" slug of 4140. Once a fresher chuck is mounted it'll need to make a couple of bushes for itself.

    About two months ago some nice guys from Hella came over the road and asked if wanted to do a walk through before everything started being shut down. I am very sad to see such an advanced manufacturer going, especially when it was still profitable even without automotive. While there i asked if I could buy the Aciera F5 they had in the tool/maint room, they gave a fair price and i agreed.

    Well after a lot of waiting it finally came over the road on their big forklift while i was away on holiday. It had been tagged out as broken in 2014 and not used since. It seems as though the X axis has a feed issue that i have yet to diagnose. the controls all seem free and i am yet to find any really egregious abuse. Due to space reasons ( I also got some other things like a set of rolls and a cold saw) My Bridgeport is going to have to be sold so PM me if interested.

    If anyone here knows more about the smaller F mills powers feed i would be very keen to know more.

    it didnt have any of the really fancy accessories but i did get its dividing head, geartrain, normal vertical head and a random rotary table. I was very concerned things would go missing as it had to sit there while all the greys purchases went out but all good.

    IMG_20181108_101317.jpgIMG_20181108_101322.jpgIMG_20181108_101337.jpg
    The quill only has a short 60mm of travel, and the handle being at the front pointed sideways is a bit odd, i also havent found any kind of stops or fine feed, the knob on the right seems to do nothing? I imagine something is broken in there

    IMG_20181108_101352.jpg
    The coolant sump and pump are at the bottom there, and thankfully have straight oil in them (its very gross but at least no corrosion)

    IMG_20181108_101425.jpg

    Phaser should like this, absolutely no labels on the controls at all. wooo


    IMG_20181108_101401.jpgIMG_20181108_101404.jpg
    I cant find a date or serial on the machine except the dro is dated 1976, cutting edge! I dont know if its factory (although all the mounting hardware is blackened so im guessing it is, also the machine has no gauge block or trav-a-dial mounts)

    IMG_20181108_101418.jpg
    Feed motor gearbox is in the foot with a tiny set of expanding pulleys like the main drive. that knob is feed speed adjustment, not exactly convenient, although you can turn rapids on at the side of the machine with a big handle.

    IMG_20181108_113540.jpg

    Part of the inbuilt arm to swing the vertical head away is missing, ill have to fabricate a new one. pretty heavy duty as the head only weighs 65kgs. I also cant find any lube points for the head so i think it has to be fully broken down to lubricate, wonder when that was last done? guessing I was in breeches still.

    IMG_20181108_114905.jpg
    Those lube lines in the apron are 1/8 OD, i sure bloody hope they aren't blocked!! They almost definitely will be though.

    IMG_20181108_115535.jpg

    Main drive setup, the expanding pulleys feel pretty good but the upper final drive sheaves are a bit worn.

    And this it where im up to, trying to split away the x axis feeds clutch, im having huge trouble getting the two close fit dowels to budge, any tips on splitting flat cases like this without damage?

    IMG_20181108_113516.jpgIMG_20181108_113521.jpg

    In that photo you can also see the vee that provides location for the removable table, im sure in a dumpster somewhere its universal table is looking forlorn.

    Thanks for reading

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Age
    53
    Posts
    989

    Default

    Don't know about your machine, but congratulations on the buy.
    Using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    386

    Default

    Looks like a beauty

    I found this : Aciera F5

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    386

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caskwarrior View Post
    Funny place to put the Z axis handle ... Lol

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    32
    Posts
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    Default

    That funny angled handle is actually the Y axis, the ram the vertical head is on is Y, the Z is in two places the front of the table and another handle about 20" down from that y handle beneath the table.

    It's odd but the machine is laid out so you can operate it from the front or the right hand side. I'm not really sure why the RHS is a good idea, maybe to keep you away from the chips?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Default

    I am a fool, I'm not missing a piece of the vertical head removal bracket, I just had to wind the Y axis back.

    I also got into the X axis feed, I think something is bad down inside the apron as the feed rod won't make a full revolution and binds badly. I suspect the bevel gears that take drive from the base into the apron are missing some teeth.

    Anyone got any good articles on making 90 degree bevels?

    IMG_20181110_160524.jpg
    IMG_20181110_160529.jpg
    IMG_20181110_160507.jpg

    I can't currently work out how to undo the horizontal drawbar, it's holding in a spindle protector and I don't think the vertical head has been off in many many years

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    56
    Posts
    5,721

    Default

    If it has not been off in many many years, it could be gummed up with old oil so stuck in place. Try a bit of penetrating oil and after that has had time to get in, treat it like you would any drawbar/ tool combination - loosen off a turn or two and a good wack with a (soft faced) hammer or mallet to break the adhesion.

    The dual controls are probably because most of the time you will operate from the front, but sometimes there is better visibility of a job from the rear or the side, especially if you were using the horizontal spindle with a milling cutter mounted directly in it.

    Michael

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    68
    Posts
    6,284

    Default

    Ralph,

    I imagine you have already visited David Samway's Anglo Swiss Tools site where he has a substantial collection of manuals and catalogues available for free download. There is no F5 literature but the F4 manual may provide suggestions as to how Aciera addressed things - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_D...BXakNGZ2c/edit

    Another possible source of information is the Yahoo group Aciera - Old Swiss Machine Tools for Metalwork - https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Aciera/info

    Bob.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
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    32
    Posts
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    Default

    Thanks for that Bob, I had read that f4 manual and it was very helpful, also I had not found the yahoo group so I'll dig though that now. Thanks again!

    Got the table off today, just the rest of the apron to go. Had to Garry a chain fall to the roof beam as I couldn't get the forklift in.

    IMG_20181112_115142.jpg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    68
    Posts
    6,284

    Default

    IMG_20181112_115142.jpg

    I'm getting old and it was hurting my neck!

    Another possible source of F5 info might be the French forum Passion Usinages - Fraiseuses. Google Translate helps but there are numerous humorous translations. I have found a lot of useful information relating to my little mill amongst the posts.

    BT

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    Well i've found the problem, and its bad. The worm wheel in the feed gearbox has lost all of its teeth, right down to the root.

    I have some enquries out in Switzerland, but im not sure if anything will come out of that, so im going to need to get this thing made. In order to do that im going to need to know what it used to look like, hoping they used something off the shelf-ish but i need some advice, ive been poring through stock gear catalogs and I am yet to find what i need. Maybe someone here can help.

    Here is what i know about the worm and wheel

    Being that its european im assuming its metric/module

    Worm:
    - Two start
    - Left handed
    - pitch of 12.25mm
    - OD is 31.75mm
    - Root diameter is 23.50mm

    EDIT Just realised the worm pitch comes out to bang on .5", makes me very suspicious

    Wheel
    - 24 Teeth
    - OD of blank is 55.88mm
    - Root diameter could be about 44mm, very hard to measure in current state.
    - ID is 17mm, 5mm keyway

    From what i can read in the catalogs there are axial module worm wheel sets and pitch module sets, how do i tell what i have?
    What other information am i going to need to reverse engineer this thing? Im assuming i need the center to center distance but that is going to be hard, ill have to reassemble the gearbox without the wheel and slip gauge blocks in.

    Help.

    IMG_20181117_085959.jpgIMG_20181116_194428.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    Default

    A module 4 gear also has a pitch of 12.57, so it may not be as suspicious as you think. If it is a 2 start worm then the 'real' tooth size is module 2, with an ID of 43.37 and OD of 52mm. Should not be difficult to get one made.

    Michael

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Age
    53
    Posts
    989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    A module 4 gear also has a pitch of 12.57, so it may not be as suspicious as you think. If it is a 2 start worm then the 'real' tooth size is module 2, with an ID of 43.37 and OD of 52mm. Should not be difficult to get one made.

    Michael
    Either you or Pipeclay would be my first thought to make one.
    Using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    Default

    I could lend the gears to Ralph too - as he has the same lathe, he could make a cutter and have all the fun of hobbing a gear. (see //metalworkforums.com/f65/t1708...78#post1661078)

    Michael

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Default

    Thanks everyone, are you talking a self feeding type hobbing, making a matching worm, cutting flutes in it and then somehow doing the relieving? I just dont know how i would put any flank relief on the cutter?

    would there be a way to plunge hob this considering the helix angle?

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