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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont 3133 Victoria
    Posts
    246

    Default Camel back, squares, scrapers and cast surface plate.

    Thanks to a post from greg_n I recently won, as in the title, some good gear.
    As a follow up I caught up with Phil M last Sat and as always had a great yak and top lunch at a local Viet eatery. As Phil does, he passed on some interesting info of work he is doing, bloody dark on him though as he is monopolising the market in Biax scrapers.
    He gave me a jar of Prussian blue powder that he purchased from an arts supplier in Fitzroy so tonight I thought I would mix up a half batch. 10 g of powder to 50 of the Kingchrome pale grease from Bunnings.
    MMM note to self, mix carefully, powder will puff, cloud out, so the stainless sink is actually porous.
    Mix Mix maybe I shouldn't have grabbed a mug out of the cupboard, turns out they are porous.
    Mix feels a bit stiff, hey place in microwave and give it a bit of a zap. Bugger micro buttons are now blue and door and taps and windex bottle, only bonus is windex actually cleans up well. Hey I have a full box of medical gloves on the kitchen bench, why didn't I put some on.
    The blue looks very dark in the container but when on fingers and, copious amounts of paper towel looks ok. Will put some on the granite plate tomorrow night.
    So as I hadn't really done any scraping since the last Phil, Marko enlightenment what the heck how hard can a 500 X 230 cast surface plate be to scrape by hand.
    Mmmm hard, hint Phil a Biax would be nice, must say Phil did offer to let me borrow a Biax but at this stage I am not ready to attack the Elliott lathe.
    I think I am about 5 cycles away from having the cast plate reading around 20 points, nice, guess 6 hrs work, was low in the middle like an oval but not excessive if I blued a bit thicker there was a good coverage. Got to love reading the rub, dark, light, lighter and what looks shines almost grey. The high high spots.
    When I picked up the gear it turned out there were another 2 straight edges, 1 smaller than the 3ft that is in good nick, that I will scrape in, only been ground. The smaller is pitted and needs machining and grind, then there was a nice camel back straight edge with dovetail edge, needs machining and grind.
    And yes magic from Phil and Marko will put me in a place from no masters to 3.
    Cheers
    Bruce

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,029

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by argeng View Post
    as he is monopolising the market in Biax scrapers.
    so he has some cheap ones to sell to us.then....lol

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western NSW
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Did he mention he had a biax with all the other gear. He priced it a little low so it did not last long on eBay. The original BIN price was also low on those items but he removed it quickly once the Biax was gone.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont 3133 Victoria
    Posts
    246

    Default

    The Biax I believe was an early model, fixed speed it went for $550. The seller knows Phil from days gone by.

    26-11-2015 10-02-58 AM.jpg
    Ebay pic, the large Moore and Wright grade A I have moved on, it had the original wooden box. I have also sold one of the Sandvik scrapers and will sell the other 25mm size, the 20mm I will keep.

    20151126_083929.jpg
    The cast square is scraped on the 90's, the 3' straight edge hasn't been scraped but seems ok a half thou feeler wont pass under it, i will probably scrape it in.
    20151118_202119.jpg
    Initial rough in scrape, hadn't crossed scraped the opposite way yet in this pic. I have put about 6 hrs on it know and it is just about there. The curve is only an illusion from how the phone has taken the pic.
    20151118_201923.jpg
    Not a great pic but these are the other 2 straight edges I also got from the seller.
    20151117_114205_1.jpg20151117_114154_1.jpg
    The seller will be listing other gear he has this really nice milling vice, swivel and tilt. If anyone is interested I can pass on his number.

    Cheers Bruce

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,001

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by markgray View Post
    He priced it a little low so it did not last long on eBay. The original BIN price was also low on those items but he removed it quickly once the Biax was gone.
    I am glad the equipment has gone to someone who will make good use of it. As a legacy of the scraping classes I think there is more scraping going on behind the scenes then we think is going on

    Phil and Marko should hold their heads high that they have done their bit to keep the skills alive. Also none of this may have even happened had not Joe started the ball rolling all those years ago. It was his idea that made the first class a reality.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,029

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post

    Phil and Marko should hold their heads high that they have done their bit to keep the skills alive. Also none of this may have even happened had not Joe started the ball rolling all those years ago. It was his idea that made the first class a reality.
    ditto

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    8,686

    Default

    Hi Bruce,

    I thought that lot sounded familiar

    Very nice buy.

    Stuart

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,376

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    Quote Originally Posted by argeng View Post
    When I picked up the gear it turned out there were another 2 straight edges, 1 smaller than the 3ft that is in good nick, that I will scrape in, only been ground. The smaller is pitted and needs machining and grind, then there was a nice camel back straight edge with dovetail edge, needs machining and grind.
    Believe it or not, I made a start on that this afternoon. The pads on the back of the arch, they were 0.6mm different in height, and they were lower than the crest of the arch, so you couldn't use them any way. What to do.

    I milled them the same height and drill tapped a couple of M6 holes.

    P1010447.jpg

    I had a scrap of cast iron.
    P1010448.JPG

    Epoxy filled the counter bores after gluing & screwing the blocks on. I even torqued them.
    P1010450.jpg

    Left over size for machining, I'll blend them in with a ball nose end mill, into the existing pads. Coat of paint and you wont know they are there. They are left over size so I can adjust them to the same thickness as the main face, so you can lay it on its side and the face will be square.
    P1010449.jpg

    Fly cut, ground and scraped, that should be a little beauty. Thinking about having it sand blasted and powder coated before I machine it.

    The way the main face is at the moment, sand blasting would improve it.

    Regards Phil.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont 3133 Victoria
    Posts
    246

    Default

    Not quite sure what to say, I guess above and beyond. This is to me another example of how great it is to have a like community group of fantastic blokes. I never said to Phil do this, as we all know this is how he slides. If you are going to do something don't cut corners. I guess the arch could have been machined down but in a precision master may not be the best.

    It it is more relevant as Phil's time when he helps us is time he could be making real money. So when I have 3 masters and the large cast master square they are open for use for anyone who may need them.

    In reading the replys to my post RC hit the nail on the head, if not for Joe all of this AUS scraping journey may never have happened. Big thanks there. I have looked over all the old Google info and it is great to see how it started as let's say baby steps to where now many are sprinting.

    PS I may have been dreaming when I said, 6 hrs on the cast surface plate, put another 1.5 hrs in tonight. I am in that place where not having enough experience I blue a bit heavier and then survey and scrape, blue lighter and it is a different decision. The plate is close but I can keep chasing, points.

    Cheers Bruce

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont 3133 Victoria
    Posts
    246

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    Just had a revelation, previously I mentioned that Phil was monopolising the purchase of Biax scrapers.
    I have investigated and have an answer. He is when it comes to finding them part blood hound, so bad luck to all!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,376

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    Quote Originally Posted by argeng View Post
    I never said to Phil do this, as we all know this is how he slides. If you are going to do something don't cut corners.
    Red Rags and Bull's. Put some thing in front of me and generally it will get done right.
    I blame my old man, miserable, hard arsed ole bastard. Only thing he left me was a work ethic.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,376

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    Quote Originally Posted by argeng View Post
    Just had a revelation, previously I mentioned that Phil was monopolising the purchase of Biax scrapers.
    I've had a revelation since Saturday. Two out of Three machines don't turn on. Technically you could can them dead. That variable speed control switch is $215 USD via Dapra USA

    I'm not sure they were the bargain I'd wished for after I got into that bidding war.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,001

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    Quote Originally Posted by argeng View Post
    PS I may have been dreaming when I said, 6 hrs on the cast surface plate, put another 1.5 hrs in tonight. I am in that place where not having enough experience I blue a bit heavier and then survey and scrape, blue lighter and it is a different decision. The plate is close but I can keep chasing, points.

    Cheers Bruce
    If you have areas of big blue blobs and areas of little blue blobs, ignore the little ones, and split the big ones, but do not scrape all the big blue blob areas. A good stoning can work wonders as well, but not too good a stoning A stoning will make the little blue blobs bigger. I find a good stoning can work wonders as well, but not too good a stoning A stoning will make the little blue blobs bigger in size.


    Provided you have good coverage overall of blue blobs. Having one tiny ppi in one area and 40ppi in another area generally means you have gone chasing ppi too quickly and progress will slow to a crawl. I find you can not do too much damage in one go with a hand scraper so get into it when roughing, a biax is a different story though and you can make a mess very quickly with them.

    Too little amount of blue can also make progress slow to a crawl. I like to put it on so I can see high, not so high and not not so high spots. If I put too little on, only the very high spots are showing and if I am still roughing out, that is not very helpful to me.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont 3133 Victoria
    Posts
    246

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    Hi Rich,
    In the scraping learning curve what you have said is exactly what I am finding. Spot the extra high points, don't take all out. Thin blue makes you question where you are at. Like wise more blue the reading can look like there is a great coverage. Focus on the high points, break up the, as Marko would say naughty points.
    it is a very fine line, amount of blue, how much stoning, how deep are you scraping with a hand scrape.

    Roughed in the cast 500 X 230 surface plate. As mentioned in previous posts found middle was low.
    Caught up with PHIL, 2 seconds later, you need to check with an indicator, turns out .5 thou low.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,863

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machtool View Post
    .... Two out of Three machines don't turn on. Technically you could can them dead. ....
    Phil,
    I would be interested in one of the 'dead' ones - if you consider passing one along. I think I might have the means and ways to graft another motor on to them.... Would be good to have another functioning one in our group. Obviously available for loans to other members of the family.
    Send me a PM or give me a call if you would consider it....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

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