my new lathe ... Precision Matthews 12x36 ...

I knew it all along when I got the HF8x14 last year that I was going to move to a larger machine, but it is actually happening a little bit sooner than I anticipated

With much help (and encouragement!) from MirageMan (Brian), I just ordered the PM 12x36 lathe, with DRO and accesories:
http://precisionmatthews.com/PM1236Lathe.html

It is not as large and nice as Brian's tool room grade 13x40 lathe, and not as fancy as Mac's awesome CNC machine, but it is definitely a significant step up from my current small lathe.

With any luck it will be in my garage next week :devil:

As usual, I will post "some" pictures

Will

PS
I don't have room for two machines, so I will be selling the heavily modified and upgraded HF8x14 (with DRO and tons of tooling) once the new machine is up and running. I will start a thread in the proper subforum once I am ready, but I wanted to give folks in this forum a heads up in case anyone is interested. EDIT: 8x machine sold to another forum member

Re: my new lathe ...

Now you are hooked:twothumbs

Re: my new lathe ...

:thumbsup:

Curses! You moved too fast for me. I'm at least 6 months away from the workshop...maybe more.

I had to Google DRO...let's see; it probably isn't HyDROponically grown marijuana, and it probably isn't Disablity Rights Office...so it must be Digital Read Out? Cool!

Re: my new lathe ...

donn_ said:

:thumbsup:

Curses! You moved too fast for me. I'm at least 6 months away from the workshop...maybe more.

I had to Google DRO...let's see; it probably isn't HyDROponically grown marijuana, and it probably isn't Disablity Rights Office...so it must be Digital Read Out? Cool!

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Yup - having a DRO is that important to me now. Once I installed the Shumatech that modamag sold me on the HF 8x14 machine, I was hooked for good - never again to operate a lathe without a DRO :devil:

I have now done so many 1xD re-thread jobs that I have lost count, but thanks to being alert and to the DRO, I have never messed up - not even once. Not only I can make better parts, I can now do them quicker, and with less variation from part to part.

The DRO helps that much when doing repetitive jobs - almost like following a cooking recipe :thumbsup: . The Shumatech in my small lathe was good, but after a few circuit board upgrades (thanks the very active user group), mine works better now and with zero flickering - just solid performance whether moving slowly or fast :thumbsup: . I am definitely spoiled - I hope that the DRO in the new PM 12x36 will be just as good

Will

Re: my new lathe ...

Will, now that you have upgraded your lathe, maybe you should upgrade
the heating in your garage/workshop now

Re: my new lathe ...

I hear you loud and clear buddy!

Good news: I got a new lathe :twothumbs

Bad news: I got only one week to make room for it - I currently have way too much S#&*T in my garage right now


Will

Re: my new lathe ...

thanks to being alert and to the DRO, I have never messed up - not even once

Click to expand...

That's the biggest advantage, more good parts and less scrap. I ran a Bridgeport that had a one axis readout (second axis was dead) ... what a PITA, counting turns after removing the slop, etc. Whenever I messed up a part, the hole was off by exactly 0.1000"

The Acu-Rite on my mill is superb. Reads to 0.0005", which is closer than you need for most work. Built in bolt hole circle program -- while that can be trigged out manually it is ten times faster with the DRO. Really neat to drill 12 holes is a circle, switch to countersink & touch all 12, switch to tap & finish the job. Once you use one, it's painful to work without it.

Re: my new lathe ...

Congrats Will! It's nice that you don't have to wait like I did to get it.

BTW there are 2 sites for PM machinery. THIS one has pictures that you can enlarge.

Re: my new lathe ...

Thats the same as the Grizzly 4003g I had but with a enclosed gearbox. Be ready for it to be 10x louder than your current machine

Whats the bore size? The whole reason I went with the Grizzly was because it had a 1.625 through hole. All the other machines in that size range I was looking at only had 1.5" which would not let a mag body through.

My new lathe which may be here monday has a 2.120 through hole

You'd be amazed at the difference in rigidness. With that 12x36 you can take .250 passes from aluminum

Mac

Re: my new lathe ...

cmacclel said:

Thats the same as the Grizzly 4003g I had but with a enclosed gearbox. Be ready for it to be 10x louder than your current machine

Whats the bore size? The whole reason I went with the Grizzly was because it had a 1.625 through hole. All the other machines in that size range I was looking at only had 1.5" which would not let a mag body through.

My new lathe which may be here Monday has a 2.120 through hole

You'd be amazed at the difference in rigidness. With that 12x36 you can take .250 passes from aluminum

Mac

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Thanks Mac, and I am definitely looking forward to pics of your new CNC setup on Monday

Bore size is quoted at 1.5", but it is in reality based on a metric measurement, so I don't know for sure. I guess I could always trim the inside a little to get the mag body to barely fit (without getting much into the tapered part). I should know next week, either Wed or Friday

As to the noise, that is a bummer since my current machine is VERY quiet, but I guess something I will have to get used. Being able to get a more rigid machine will probably be a good compromise :thumbsup:

Will

Re: my new lathe ...

Best Xmas present for us all.........expect more pictures.

Re: my new lathe ...

Be ready for it to be 10x louder than your current machine

Click to expand...

I've run some good sized older machines, 24" swing, that were near silent -- for a few good reasons. The fill capacity on those machines is around 5 gallons. The headstock castings are thick, often in the 3/4" to 1" range. Many have a top cover that weighs the better part of 100#. Lots of heavy iron, filled with a large quantity of oil, really deadens the sound.

Even "little" 14" machines from the same era, like the American Pacemaker, weigh over 8000#, for the same reasons stated above. Fast forward to today, and the average imported 14" weighs 2000#. It's physically impossible for a 2000# machine to be as quiet, as free from vibration, etc., as one weighing 4X as much.

Re: my new lathe ...

precisionworks said:

I've run some good sized older machines, 24" swing, that were near silent -- for a few good reasons. The fill capacity on those machines is around 5 gallons. The headstock castings are thick, often in the 3/4" to 1" range. Many have a top cover that weighs the better part of 100#. Lots of heavy iron, filled with a large quantity of oil, really deadens the sound.

Even "little" 14" machines from the same era, like the American Pacemaker, weigh over 8000#, for the same reasons stated above. Fast forward to today, and the average imported 14" weighs 2000#. It's physically impossible for a 2000# machine to be as quiet, as free from vibration, etc., as one weighing 4X as much.

Click to expand...

I am going to go on a limb, that the China factory did not use the best possible oil to fill my lathe, so I would like to start with something that would offer better wear protection. What type/brand of oil is recommended for these machines?

Will

Re: my new lathe ...

wquiles said:

I am going to go on a limb, that the China factory did not use the best possible oil to fill my lathe, so I would like to start with something that would offer better wear protection. What type/brand of oil is recommended for these machines?

Will

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I'm pretty sure the lathes ship dry and Matt fills them when he tests them. If you shoot him an email or give him a call he'll certainly let you one way or the other.

cmacclel said:

Be ready for it to be 10x louder than your current machine

Click to expand...

Mac, you'd be surprised what a difference having the gear box enclosed and the gears bathed in oil makes.

Re: my new lathe ...

Mirage_Man said:

I'm pretty sure the lathes ship dry and Matt fills them when he tests them. If you shoot him an email or give him a call he'll certainly let you one way or the other.

Click to expand...

Can you please PM me his email address?

Thanks,
Will

Re: my new lathe ...

I'm pretty sure the lathes ship dry

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That's my thought also. After Matt fills the head, it's a good idea, on a brand new machine, to run it for a week or so doing whatever you need to do. Then drain the headstock oil & replace with fresh. Every one of the gear contact faces will start wearing in, and all those tiny metal particles will either drop to the bottom (if large enough) or stay in suspension (if really tiny). New oil is the least expensive way to give that machine a long life.

What type/brand of oil is recommended

Click to expand...

There should be a specified viscosity oil in the manual that comes with the lathe, and Matt probably has his own favorite as well. The Mobil DTE series is often the choice, and is available from MSC & other distributors.

Re: my new lathe ...

I believe you need to use a ISO68 oil which is what the Grizzly used. Also the break in procedure for the Grizzly was to run the lathe in each speed forward for 20 minutes then in reverse for 20 minutes for ALL THE SPEEDS. Then change the oil.

Mirage.....the grizzly lathe was loud even without the gearbox engaged. It was only slightly louder with it engaged.

My new machine is only 2200lbs but when I demoed it at a local company I was amazed as well as the salesman They had a 12" chuck mounted to the machine cutting hardened steel at 0.075 depth of cut. The machine was wisper quite.

Mac

Re: my new lathe ...

the grizzly lathe was loud even without the gearbox engaged

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There are lots of sources of vibration in a lathe or in any machine. Some motors, especially those made in China, are not well balanced & produce an awful vibration even when connected to nothing. A motor shop can balance most any motor, but it often costs less to eBay a new replacement motor. Even new off the shelf Baldors, which are dynamically balanced to better than NEMA MG 1-2003 specifications, are not perfect -- which is why Baldor "allows" you to pay $100 extra for precision balancing (motor must be ordered from the factory with that option)

Then there's the V-belt (or belts) that connect the motor to the gearbox on many machines. I've seen many imported belts that looked like they were cut with a dull knife on a dirt floor, and ran from side to side like a drunk sailor. New Gates belts almost always help, and the Fenner PowerTwist Plus is better yet:

http://www.fennerdrives.com/high_performance_composite_vbelts/powertwist_home.asp

Alignment of the sheave on the motor shaft with the input sheave on the gearbox is another area often overlooked, and can reduce vibration. If you spend enough time with the machine, you can make it run better most of the time. The exception is if the gears themselves are not quite perfectly matched, and will howl until they eventually wear in.

Re: my new lathe ...

precisionworks said:

That's my thought also. After Matt fills the head, it's a good idea, on a brand new machine, to run it for a week or so doing whatever you need to do. Then drain the headstock oil & replace with fresh. Every one of the gear contact faces will start wearing in, and all those tiny metal particles will either drop to the bottom (if large enough) or stay in suspension (if really tiny). New oil is the least expensive way to give that machine a long life.

There should be a specified viscosity oil in the manual that comes with the lathe, and Matt probably has his own favorite as well. The Mobil DTE series is often the choice, and is available from MSC & other distributors.

Click to expand...

I just heard back from Matt - it is indeed Mobil DTE Heavy/Medium circulating oil (about 3 gallons total - he said buying the 5 gallon container might be cheaper), although he said that many other oils will work as well, including Tractor Hydraulic Transmission and Gear Oil. So it looks like the "exact" oil is not as important as having a good/quality lubricant in there :twothumbs

After the initial swap, how often is it recommended a change? I guess it would depend on actual usage, but I would guess that (like a car's transmission/differential) once a year or every other year would make sense, right?

How much fluid are we

Will

Re: my new lathe ...

how often is it recommended to change?

Click to expand...

Most schedules I've seen call for annual replacement. You can monitor the color & clarity as being somewhat representative of the level of contamination in the oil. A small magnet, swept across the bottom of the gearbox, is another indicator. If the bottom isn't easy to access, you may want to modify the drain plug and add a rare earth magnet to it -- in a way that it cannot detach

Like a car or motorcycle motor, the surfaces need a few hours to kiss & wear into each other. You may want to go no higher that 800 rpm for the first day of use, which allows surface mating before running at higher speeds.