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6th Aug 2021, 04:22 PM #1Most Valued Member
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Anyone here know there 4x4 4wd winches? Possible winch trailer mover project
Hey guys are anyone you into 4x4 or 4wd and know your winches? I have this 19 ft boat i have just converted from cabin to centre console a 3+ year project that is nearing the end, i have totally rebuilt the hull i hand built the whole aluminium trailer and i have swapped powerheads on the engine so its all just now coming together
I currently have a MINI MOVER II its a small electric jockey wheel to move the boat around on the trailer but its quiet a small single wheel unit 12volt dc
I want to find a 9,000-12,000lb 4x4 winch that has a steel drum so i can get a 520 grade sprocket laster or water cut to fit the winches drum even ifits a a 2 piece sprocket and welded back together and braced with plates and welded
Problem i'm having is know one actually says in the winch descriptions wether the drums are steel or aluminium i really want a steel drum for maximum strength
Hopping someone here knows the in's and out's
Its quiet a big boat but should be under GVM 2000KGS winch will need to push the trailer up a 13 degree driveway hence it needs to be a big hefty winch
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6th Aug 2021, 09:10 PM #2Most Valued Member
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What are you actually planning to do that requires a sprocket to be welded to the winch drum?
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6th Aug 2021, 09:15 PM #3Most Valued Member
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I think he wants to drive the small electric jockey wheel with the winch instead of 12V motor. Not sure what that winch would do to the rather flimsy jockey wheel if something should go wrong but I imagine it would not be pretty.
Nev.
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6th Aug 2021, 09:46 PM #4Most Valued Member
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Hey Karl, planning to make a trailer mover guys are making them using small 1500kg winches like this https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/26468990...sAAOSwMiFeuAyh but i actually need to step it up due to my driveway, u weld a chain sprocket to a winch that will connect by a chain to a axle and another matching sprocket
I used the MINI MOVER 2 just on dark this afternoon after i made this post, it moved my 7 meter rig (trailer and hull no engine) i got it on video but the jockey wheel mount almost snapped crazy stuff that little electric wheel bent the jockey wheel post bracket
I could possible run 2 of those little winch/sprockets in a V on a single axle twin wheels with twin chans and sprocket set up
They make these rediculous ones in china for the usa market but we cant get them
https://youtu.be/Xx_dbV3dln8
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6th Aug 2021, 09:59 PM #5Most Valued Member
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6th Aug 2021, 10:03 PM #6Most Valued Member
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Surfinnev nah the Mini Mover 2's wheel is to small heres a video i took this afternoon u can see the tiny wheel has trouble getting up on the concrete driveway, i need bigger wheels and much more traction
https://youtu.be/YAuW-BIj-fg
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6th Aug 2021, 11:50 PM #7
Two points to consider here.
1. The trailer balance will change substantially one the motor is mounted on the stern, reducing the weight that the jockey wheel is supporting and making it easier to transition from grass to concrete. Whether that helps to climb the slope or not is debatable, as everywhere, small wheels mean poor tolerance to surface imperfections.
2. Something similar to the Chinese dolly would be better overall, but may not be suitable for lowering the rig back down the slope when the boat returns to the yard. Optimum wheel loading for traction on the slope most likely would not be compatible for ball loading when towing on the road. Personally I would opt for a passive variant of the dolly and a 4WD winch anchored at the top of the slope, you then have a well anchored device capable of controlling the rig, a steerable nose support for the rig with a decent set of wheels, and a remote control system (preferably wireless) so that you can control everything while walking the rig through the slope. A passive dolly is much less of an issue to build from scratch, and could use any pair of suitable sized wheels, tread pattern and depth are way less of an issue as they are providing rolling support rather than than tractive effort.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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7th Aug 2021, 09:13 AM #8Most Valued Member
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I'd suggest a major rethink. The mini mover specs that I've seen clearly state that the device is not suitable for tandem axle trailers due to insufficient drawbar weight (traction). That issue will not go away no matter how powerful your drive system is.
Don't think so much about pulling the trailer up the 13 degree slope, think more about the carnage caused by a 2000+ Kg battering ram descending unrestrained down said slope if your motive system fails or traction is lost. Not an overly happy image is it.
Is there a reason that you cannot get vehicular access down the driveway, even if you then use an electric jockey wheel to manoeuvre the trailer in your yard?
The number one rule for all lifting, winching or moving is to maintain control at all times. If you can't get a vehicle down the driveway, then Malb's suggestion of a decent winch anchored at the top would be your next best option.
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7th Aug 2021, 11:52 AM #9Most Valued Member
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Another simple option which might be useful is a front mounted receiver on your vehicle and push it up.
Particularly if you have a 4WD with low range.
Much more maneuverable than towbar at the rear, better visibility and the trailer ends up with the drawbar ready to hook up to the towbar next time you want to use it.
Also means the trailer is attached to the vehicle while going up the slope so it can’t get away by itself.
Steve.
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7th Aug 2021, 12:43 PM #10Senior Member
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I made this one to move my previous caravan.
Baldor DC motor and a Bonfignioli gearbox fitted with a 35mm stainless shaft and made up hubs for the quadbike wheels using taperlocks on the shaft. only issue is the motor is a 90V unit so used a DC drive controller and small inverter off a 12v battery to power it.
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7th Aug 2021, 12:55 PM #11Senior Member
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Got these photos of kits you can buy off net a while back before went the way I did.
The winch I planned to use had a alloy drum and plan was to machine the side wall of NDE and machine a steel sleeve to bolt on over the drum then weld the sprocket to the sleeve.
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7th Aug 2021, 01:50 PM #12Most Valued Member
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The 4x4 winches have a lock built inside the drum the only way the trailer can roll down the hill will be if the chain snaps hence i was going to go with dual chains for that very reason, a 520 chain is good for 50-60 horse power on a dirt bike or road bike i havent looked into thicker bigger chains
The winch pulling the trailer up the driveway has its faults too as i need to pull the trailer out of the yard too
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7th Aug 2021, 02:15 PM #13Philomath in training
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Without putting words in Karl's mouth, what he is saying (I think) is that the tandem axle reduces the load at the draw bar, so one of these devices won't have the necessary traction. Without that traction, the trailer is just as likely to roll down the driveway. Brakes in the mover won't help at all because brakes only work because of traction between the wheel and the road surface.
It will be worse when you get a motor on the boat, because that will transfer more weight off the hitch. The only way around this is to make the moving device heavy enough that it maintains traction. Something about the weight of a car would do it...
Michael
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7th Aug 2021, 03:59 PM #14Most Valued Member
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Ahh ok im with u guys now, the towbar hitch weight needs to be 10% of the gross vehicle mass which will be 160-200kgs im about to put the engine on so i can check the ball weight and go from there, i would have thought 1600-2000kgs on a 13 degree slope there would be a lot more towball weight due to the boat trailer being pushed up hill rather than pulled up hill
The little Mini Mover 2 has pushed the boat as in the video over long grass, loose light dirt and on concrete just the wheel is tiny if there is grass on the concrete the wheel slips
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7th Aug 2021, 06:28 PM #15Most Valued Member
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Pushing the boat uphill will improve your weight on the drawbar for sure. I still have concerns regarding control though as that weight transfer will at least lessen and quite likely reverse as the boat transitions from the sloped driveway to the presumably flatter area at the top.
Given that all current electric 4WD winches that I can think of are of an inline planetary drive design you will need to do some homework regarding exactly how the brake works as I suspect that the brake may only function at rest and therefore you may face the risk of the winch motor over running as you descend the slope. A worm drive gearbox like sparksy used is a much better and safer solution to this issue as it doesn't transmit drive to the motor from the load like a regular geartrain will.
Are you sure you can't get a vehicle down the driveway and bring the boat in and out the right way round? It sounds a lot simpler and much safer.
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