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Thread: Milling machines
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23rd Jun 2020, 10:38 PM #1
Milling machines
Anyone had any experience with the HM-54GV mill from H&F?
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M579
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23rd Jun 2020, 11:02 PM #2Gear expert in training
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No, but at that price point it'd seriously be worth looking at the cost of installing 3-phase power because you will get a hell of a lot more machine for your money buying ex-industrial/TAFE
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24th Jun 2020, 09:47 AM #3
Is it the horizontal spindle your chasing?
They are just the same HM52 renamed with a VFD on the vertical and a updated control panel.
The quill would still only be held by 2x25mm collars, and why they didn't also add VFD to the horizontal I don't know, it's a pain to change those belts.
I've had my HM52 since 2007, after going down and choosing between a few with a dial indicator.
It does everything I want but I have to keep the quill locked.
I have done a load of mods, and a complete strip down when I bought it though.Using Tapatalk
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24th Jun 2020, 10:57 AM #4Senior Member
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24th Jun 2020, 11:18 AM #5Diamond Member
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As DaveJ says its an upgrade of the well known HM52. As drill press they are brilliant, as a mill they are floppy, you won't be taking heavy cuts with big cutters. But much better than no mill at all.
Talk to knowledgeable people about the variable speed drive, make sure it will perform reliably.
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24th Jun 2020, 05:27 PM #6Most Valued Member
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While I don't profess to know all there is about milling machines, that machine seems quite underwhelming based on specs. I greatly doubt that there are 3 genuine horsepower to be had from a 10A rated machine and the whole thing seems quite light - 900Kg according to them, which is less than a Bridgeport clone. This is reflected in the maximum table loading permitted, 160Kg for the HM54, while the Bridgeport clones are rated for 250ish I believe. No power feed on the quill means a boring head will be awkward unless the the optional powered Z axis is added and that may be less than ideal solution. If their quill fine feed is a clunky as the one on the HM32, then you will HATE it, I know I did. I would have thought that a second hand Bridgeport clone with the necessary electronic wizardry to run off a single phase supply would be a better option. The HM54V does have a 3 axis DRO but they are neither expensive or difficult to retro fit to another machine.
For the same $8000 investment, there are some really nice machines out there - even the odd Bridgeport clone with a 90 degree drive head to give you a horizontal capability.
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24th Jun 2020, 06:55 PM #7Golden Member
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The HM52 is passable as a drill press. It wasn't nicknamed "the soggy noodle" on this forum some time ago for no reason.
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24th Jun 2020, 10:58 PM #8
As for a soggy noodle, I don't agree with that as they are fairly rigid machines and I can run a 65mm facemill easily, agree not as rigid as a full size mill, but there not a full size mill.
The main advantage is the horizontal, you can load a endmill/facemill/drill or even mount a lathe chuck in it for those difficult to hold jobs, and also be able to run standard horizontal milling cutters using the arbour support.
As for weight the castings vary between them as I got 2 totally different machines (casting wise) delivered with different inside and outside sand castings.They where advertised as being around 1050kg from memory back when I bought mine, so must be skimping on cast iron these days.
Through research for others over the years I've found there are several manufacturers making them. I have seen them with anything from a square column mill head on them (which would be a improvement) to Bridgeport copy head, both would be a huge improvement.
A 3hp motor on VFD is standard to replace a 2hp motor, you always go up a HP when adding one.
I have done precision work with mine over the years and I know Pipeclay upgraded and owns one as well, so do a lot of other members here and elsewhere and I don't hear complaints.
If you are a machinist and expect this machine to do what industrial machines do, it's not going to happen.
I was originally looking at a square column bench mill with all the bells and whistles when I bought mine, but the price difference back then was so minimal I went for the bigger HM52, I'm glad I did and will be happy for many years to come yet.
I'd class this size mill well above a square column mill.
Saying that, if I had to buy another at today's prices I wouldn't buy one, the price is ridiculous for this mill as I bought mine for half that, if really wanting to buy new I'd go for a BM series mill for $800 extra, or better off look for a good second hand mill as has already been said.Using Tapatalk
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24th Jun 2020, 11:31 PM #9Most Valued Member
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I've had the thought from time to time and this thread has rekindled it once more, leading me to wonder just how much markup there must be on these machines by the likes of Machinery House. I realise that they have to carry stock and provide warranty and parts backup, but given the prices that these seem to go for purchasing direct from a Chinese seller, I can't help but feel that these machines and the tooling that goes with them must be a good little earner for somebody.
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25th Jun 2020, 12:12 AM #10
Yep, when I bought mine and had troubles the grandchildren had taken over the H&F business.
They had no clue and put me into the technical expert which had no clue.
The first mill was out in the Y axis, milled not ground ways and a tapered table, his reply was why are you machining at the end of the table.
2nd one I told him the table had a large twist to the table, way out of spec from the tolerances specified,
3rd one I went back to Sydney and picked out of a few and tooi along my dial indicator and mage base.
Pretty sad needing to do this for a new machine.
It seems they have no clue these days like there grandfather did that established the firm.
As for prices I bought mine for $4200, within 6 months after that they went to $5200, then $5700 and only a DRO was added.
Today's prices are ridiculous.
I have watched and followed prices, when the Aussie dollar went up some years ago to $1.10 the prices never changed, as soon as the dollar dropped they went up and have never stopped going up.
For a home machinist when I bought mine I thought it was a fair price to upgrade, not these days.
I remember being 17 years old and wanting a lathe, Myford and hercus where around but the prices where up there and out of reach for a home hobby shop unless you where really serious, now the Chinese machinery seems out of reach unless your serious to me for home hobby shop, for what you actually get as far as quality goes.Using Tapatalk
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25th Jun 2020, 01:45 AM #11Diamond Member
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This is something I've pondered myself occasionally, it would be great if someone with inside knowledge could spill the beans on here.
Absent that, looking at the cost of running a typical Hafpos warehouse, you would have to surmise a markup in the region of 300% on lathes and mills. i.e. buy for $1000 sell for $4000.
Say 15 employees on an average of $30 per hour, that comes to 1.5m a year including on costs. Rent for a huge shed, power, insurance, cost of holding stock, vehicles, etc etc another 1.5m.
All of which means the required gross profit per week just to break even is 60k, i.e. 80k of sales. Or the equivalent of 10 HM54 mills per week.
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26th Jun 2020, 03:12 AM #12
2nd Hand 3 Phase bargains
I've had a good read through this thread and the advice (thanks everyone) pretty much matches my instincts regarding the high cost of slightly limp or, to be more fair, low-spec machines from the likes of H&F.
I'm new to this game so I can't say I've had experience in buying, renovating or selling machinery, but I've bitten the bullet and gone for 3 phase in my new shed.
So, my question is: where are all these low-cost (or at least better-value) 2nd hand 3 phase machines hiding? I've looked everywhere that Google has suggested and all I can see are out-of-date websites selling things that I've never heard of from Hungary or Czeckoslovakia. I haven't seen what looks like a decent Bridgeport or Bridgeport clone or a good universal for less than $12,000 (ok, I saw one).
I'm very hesitant to buy the one that I saw and liked,because it's literally the only affordable, solid machine I've seen and I've got nothing to compare it with in order to assess its real value.
Any ideas, or secret places, where I should be looking?
Thanks again for your help, and apologies to the OP for highjacking this thread.
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26th Jun 2020, 05:17 AM #13Senior Member
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26th Jun 2020, 07:30 AM #14Gear expert in training
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machines4u.com.au
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26th Jun 2020, 09:23 AM #15Senior Member
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Gumtree is very good. Recently a monster lathe d1-8 sold for $3800 with a tonne of tooling. The purchaser was located in Tasmania and paid about $1000 to have it boxed and shipped. Now comparing this lathe to some of the $20k items sold by H&F this buyer had a bargain and he knew it. The lathe took over 3 weeks to sell and the seller told me typical offers were between $500 and $3000. Not just lathes, look at some of the three phase pedestal drill. Bargains. And if you know how to recondition machines there is a gold mine of items out there.
Regards,
Tom
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