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21st Jun 2020, 10:08 AM #1Golden Member
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Try and repair or learn to live with it?
My used and abused RF30 is perfect for my needs. It was a cheap purchase but that’s not a surprise given the shape of it when I bought it. The table isn’t perfect, the nuts are worn and the x axis has a lot of play.
I can live with the table, I’ve tightened the nuts and will make some replacements soon, but the x axis play is way beyond my expertise (obviously).
I costed up a replacement table but at $1,200 it’s just not worth it so I was wondering if an economical solution is available in the $600 range (Sydney), or if I have to just learn to live with it?
The Y Axis is perfect, no wear at all luckily that I can notice. The x is largely in the centre and to the left. The right side of the table is relatively fresh. It’s making using the table quite hard as the gibs require constant adjustment to remove the slop.
With the gibs snug with the table on the right side I have zero movement, the table movement at the left side when the table is centered is 0.36mm and with the table to the left I have 0.31mm.
I don’t need ultimate precision but I’m seeking options to get this improved, whether through technique on the mill, or ideally a more permanent fix.
My shop budget is always tight so scrapping the mill and moving on isn’t really an option. And other than the X axis, it does everything I need.
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21st Jun 2020, 11:05 AM #2Senior Member
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- Sep 2009
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- Newcastle
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In what direction is the slop? Along the axis? Front to back (Y)? Up and down?
If it's along the axis it is likely to be wear in the screw and nut.
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21st Jun 2020, 11:09 AM #3Golden Member
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Try and repair or learn to live with it?
It’s definitely in the table as I’ve already done the checks on the screw and nuts. But to be clear the slop is measured with a dial indicator at the ends of the table where the top part meets the lower (eg the x table meets the y slide).
The slop is in the table as I pull it front to back. Its definitely worse on the left side of the machine so it looks like, whilst the wear is worse in the middle, it’s also pretty bad on the left of the machine too. Right hand side is the best on both the gibs/slides and the screw/nuts.
I’ll snap some pics.
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21st Jun 2020, 11:30 AM #4Golden Member
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- Sep 2009
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Try and repair or learn to live with it?
This is how I’m setting up the measurements:
0.46mm of slop at full table travel:
At the other end 0.08mm:
This wear seems to be matched in the backlash in the x screw and nut too. If I can repair the table I will likely replace the screw and nut too.
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21st Jun 2020, 03:09 PM #5Most Valued Member
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- Jul 2016
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- Melbourne
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Scraping only really costs you time. Even a pretty crude job will get you a lot closer.
Lookcreations on YouTube does a good job on basically $0 budget. If you are in Melbourne I can lend you most of what you need
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
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21st Jun 2020, 04:24 PM #6Most Valued Member
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Do you know if it is wear on the gib or wear on the table?
Have you considered shimming the gib?
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21st Jun 2020, 05:30 PM #7Golden Member
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Pipeclay; how can I measure if the problem is the gib or not? Can I take it out and do some measurements along the gib? I assume it should have a consistent taper?
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21st Jun 2020, 08:28 PM #8Most Valued Member
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If you pull the gib out you may be able to calculate what the original size of it should of been.
Before removing you will need to measure the clearance between the gib and table at one end and add that to the respective end of the gib, your calculations should give a final thickness for the other end.
Based on your results it seems that the gib is concave.
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21st Jun 2020, 08:44 PM #9Golden Member
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Try and repair or learn to live with it?
Interesting. I will try and do some more reading to see if I can understand the process a little more.
I think based on caskwarriors comments I will have a crack at trying to improve myself. With 0.42mm gap I hope I can’t make it worse. Time to do some reading on scraping and measuring gibs.
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22nd Jun 2020, 08:46 AM #10Golden Member
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Try and repair or learn to live with it?
I’m looking for more info on scraping and coming up with lots of info, from the requirement to tool up with more money than a new mill, to back yard operations.
Anyone help guide me on a few parts?
1. I will measure the gib first. I’m clear on what I need to do Pipeclay, so will post up the results when I get them. I assume though if the table
Is worn at a certain spot, that will upset the readings for the gib?
2. I don’t have the money to get a long straight edge. Given I’m trying to remove a 0.46mm issue, would I be able to get a piece of glass instead to help scrape in dovetails?
3. Where can I locate a place to buy blue and a scraper from? My eBay and google searches are brining up a lot of paint scrapers and paint only
4. I don’t have a really big micrometer to measure the dovetails. Are my 150mm calipers going to work or do I really need to invest in a proper mircrometer?
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22nd Jun 2020, 11:14 AM #11Most Valued Member
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In this case calipers are fine. You can use a shorter straight edge to do it in steps.
I would at least buy one of those cheaper small granite lapping plates from carbatec $65 I think so you have a flat surface. Then you need to work out which dovetail is the most worn. By either measuring from the plate up with something like a height gauge (John on here from the UK built a really cheap one) or use a depth mic and roller (or caliper and roller) to measure in from the sides of the table.
Measure everything 3 times.
Just make a scraper from an old file as a starting point then you can upgrade to brazing an old carbide insert onto said old file when you get sick of sharpening it.
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22nd Jun 2020, 11:22 AM #12Golden Member
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- Sydney
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Thanks caskwarrior. I have an old file that’s seen better days, so that might be the first thing to be sacrificed.
With the dovetails, I understand the concept of needing a surface plate for ensuring the dovetails and flat and perpendicular to the top of the table, but how would I use one to check the lateral wear in the dovetails?
My primary focus was going to be sideways wear to remove as much of the slop as possible. My thoughts here were:
1. Use a straight edge and blue to scrape the non gib side flat of the lower dovetail
2. Measure the lower dovetails width and match the gib one to the other side
3. Blue top non gib dovetail and match/flatten to the lower dovetail
4. Measure the upper dovetails width and match the gib one to the other side
5. Scrape the gib to match the table
I assumed most of this would use the non gib lower dovetail as the reference surface. And getting that straight was the concern (however rethinking this as I write I probably need to make sure it’s parallel to the edge of the table?).
This is all assuming I still have issues after I inspect the gib.
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22nd Jun 2020, 01:45 PM #13Most Valued Member
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- Aug 2008
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- Charlestown NSW
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Neevo.
I can give you a bit of carbide if you want to make a carbide scraper. However its at least 5mm thick, which wont be a problem on an open flat surface but might stop you getting into the corner of a dovetail.
I brazed one to the end of an Eclipse flat scraper over 30 years ago. They hold their edge for a long time. You do have to be careful though as it will cut where a high carbon one has stopped.
You could just braze it to the end of a bit of flat bar and put a file handle on the other end. That way your modified file is still usable and/or you don't have to worry about grinding the teeth off the file to make it easier on your hands. A broken power hacksaw blade also makes a decent flat scraper.
Peter
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22nd Jun 2020, 01:47 PM #14Golden Member
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22nd Jun 2020, 02:03 PM #15Most Valued Member
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