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Thread: Bush Fires !

  1. #31
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    Hi Guys,

    Its started to hit our news reports almost daily since the start of the new year. There was some film of row upon row of dead animals simply trapped between the fire and wire fence at the side of a road. A place called "Nowra" seems to be one reported from. Lots of overhead pictures taken from an aircraft,

    Its a tragedy, so little seems to have been done to prevent or reduce the fire risk.

    I really feel for you guys.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  2. #32
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    Bushfire advise given back in the year 1855...

    Seems we never learn..

    BUSH FIRES.



    Rapidly filling up as this colony is with people not much accustomed to the ordinary casualties of Australian life, it has often struck us that it would be an act of kindness to furnish, periodically, a few hints of the particular dangers which each season successively presents. The remarks published on a certain day may convince or sufficiently warn the colonists of that particular period, but before the next recurrence of the season thousands of new colonists may have been added to our numbers, thousands of others may so far have changed their pursuits as to have become liable to new and unconsidered risks, and great loss and affliction may befall unsuspecting people, whom a few words of timely warning would have saved from any such misfortune.


    About this time last year, we called attention to the very great danger to which our country readers were exposed through the agency of bush-fires ; and, actuated by the considerations to which we have referred, we make no apology for the republication of the article at the present season. It is not often that we are guilty of the small vanity of quoting ourselves, and on the present occasion the object, which we have in view will induce the public fully to acquit us of any such offence. The article was as follows. In many respects it is not so accurately adapted to the circumstances of the present year, as of that for which it was expressly prepared, but we think it better to republish it just in the form in which it originally appeared : —


    Almost all experienced colonists agree In predicting very extensive and disastrous fires through-out the country district during the present summer ; and, although we have given frequent warnings upon the subject, we so fully coincide with those who see the probability of serious injury, that we wish to urge the subject in the most energetic manner upon the attention of all, that every possible precaution may be taken to avert the danger, if possible, or at all events to mitigate its effects.

    Amongst the mass of population which has poured into the colony during the last two years, there are tens of thousands who know very little of what a bush-fire in Australia is ; or how frightful a thing under certain circumstances, it may become and as their comfort, their property, and even their lives are at stake, it will only be an act of kindness to apprise them of the danger upon the brink of which they may be slumbering. From the increase to our numbers and the thicker settlement of our country, there is more danger of serious accident than ever was the case before, and it is again increased by the fact of the summer being a very dry one, and succeeding one particularly cool and moist. The grass which grew freely and thick all through last summer will have become so dried by the drought and heat of the present one, that the fires which will necessarily occur will be far fiercer than is ordinarily the case. And those who recollect the terrors of the far-famed "Black Thursday," and the misery and ruin which resulted from it, will have no inclination to witness another such conflagration.
    Upon that frightful occasion the hot wind blew during the whole day with unexampled strength and intensity. The temperature, even when actually felt, appeared absolutely incredible. It struck one, when exposed to it, that no natural atmosphere could possibly be so hot. But, in fact. the original heat of the wind was greatly increased by passing over a vast extent of burning country ; and the air was, in reality, what it felt to be — a heat from a furnace. The whole country was overspread with a thick, lurid, mysterious smoke, which reached far out to sea, and in some localities produced, even early in the afternoon, an almost total darkness. The light ashes from the burning forest were actually deposited on the decks of vessels hundreds of miles from land. Millions of acres of the country were swept by the fire during that dreadful day ; thousands of sheep, huddled together, were smothered and burnt as they stood ; crops, fences, paddocks stacks, out-buildings, huts and houses, for miles together, were involved in one common ruin, and many human beings were hemmed in and burnt to death. Scores of farmers and others were also-lately left penniless ; without homes, clothes, or food, and the whole colony teemed with particulars most affecting disaster.....

    Continues - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4803851

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Its started to hit our news reports almost daily since the start of the new year. There was some film of row upon row of dead animals simply trapped between the fire and wire fence at the side of a road. A place called "Nowra" seems to be one reported from. Lots of overhead pictures taken from an aircraft,

    Its a tragedy, so little seems to have been done to prevent or reduce the fire risk.

    I really feel for you guys.
    BaronJ
    In spite of all the "experts" making claims as to why and how, I think its a lot more complex than that.

    We live near Newcastle NSW and yesterday we made a 200klm (each way) trip north of Newcastle on the Pacific Hwy. This is the "green" coastal fringe of the East coast of Australia.

    We have done this trip many times before but what struck us yesterday was the amount of trees in the bush that appear to be dying. In some areas you look across at the bush and instead of seeing the usual bush green you see lots and lots of brown. Eucalyptus trees will drop some of their leaves in times of drought but I have never seen anything like this. When I say drop their leaves, that's exactly what I mean. The leaves fall off. What we are seeing now is the entire tree appearing to be dead with leaves still attached.

    What a lot of the rest of the world doesn't realise is Australia has been in a severe drought for years now. I think what we are seeing (and I'm not claiming to be an "expert") with these trees is they are just dying from lack of water. (I really hope I'm wrong and that these trees will regenerate once we get decent rain again.)

    We made another short trip today to a slightly different location and on our way home we stopped and had a look at one of these areas. I made a short video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHsIZhwp9e4

    The leaves are just crispied. If (more likely when) a fire comes through these areas, its easy to see why it takes off so fast and so intensely. I don't know if the Eucalyptus oil stays in the leaves that are brown or not, but if it does that would also add to the intensity of the fire.

    Another side effect of the drought and the lack of moisture in the trees is the wildlife (koalas, possums, gliders, various birds and insects) that feed from these trees don't get enough food so they would be dying off. This would also mean that the animals and birds that prey on the leaf eaters will also be dying off.
    The ground is rock hard. Most places its like concrete. You would have trouble digging a hole with hand tools.
    If there is any good at all to come out of these fires is the fires will also be reducing the numbers of feral animals in our bush. Cats, dogs, foxes, pigs, goats etc. Sadly, even though they are feral, they will also be suffering horrendous deaths due to the fires.
    Grim times indeed.
    Peter

  4. #34
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    Hi Peter,

    We have done this trip many times before but what struck us yesterday was the amount of trees in the bush that appear to be dying. In some areas you look across at the bush and instead of seeing the usual bush green you see lots and lots of brown. Eucalyptus trees will drop some of their leaves in times of drought but I have never seen anything like this. When I say drop their leaves, that's exactly what I mean. The leaves fall off. What we are seeing now is the entire tree appearing to be dead with leaves still attached.
    I completely agree with you ! Once the water deep in the soil has gone, there is nothing to sustain the tree. The ground gets so hard that even a good downfall of rain isn't going to penetrate the surface. From looking at your video, its obvious that the ground water has all but gone.

    Reading YBAF's post makes it very clear that people have been warned about the risks of bush fires for years and yet little seems to have been done to mitigate the risks of fires !

    I've believed for years that it was our elected representatives job to care and look after the populous, it seems not !

    Thankyou for taking the trouble to take that video.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Peter,

    Reading YBAF's post makes it very clear that people have been warned about the risks of bush fires for years and yet little seems to have been done to mitigate the risks of fires !
    Apart from hazard reduction burning there's not much can be done. Changing the building codes in fire prone areas would help a lot, but it would require a radical change in thinking on house design and that would be just too hard for most people.
    The homes that have been destroyed will be rebuilt and most of them will be of similar design and similar materials to what got burnt out.
    Just about anywhere you go here where there is bush (privately owned) you will find houses built in among the trees. A disaster waiting to happen.
    These fires certainly show just how stupid some Australian are though.
    We've had massive fires all up and down the East coast for months, Bugger all rain, with very little forecast. Warnings (before xmas) of potential catastrophic fire conditions all over NSW & Vic. Lots of areas that haven't had bushfires up until before Xmas but are surrounded by bush, yet hundreds of people still go to these areas for their holidays.
    Yes, I know its good for the economies of these ares, providing there isn't a fire, but as we've seen there have been huge fires and all these holiday makers have now had to be evacuated at great cost to the country. That's a $ cost, plus the cost in fire fighting and emergency services that have had to be diverted to get these morons out.
    Heellloo. Its wouldn't have been hard to look at a map and think "theres a lot of bush near where we want to go, if it catches fire, which there is a good chance of happening given the conditions, it might be a problem for us. Maybe it would be safer to postpone the holiday" DUH

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    I've believed for years that it was our elected representatives job to care and look after the populous, it seems not !

    Thankyou for taking the trouble to take that video.
    No problem. My panning was a bit quicker than I thought at the time though unfortunately.
    peter

  6. #36
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    Noticed a fair few ironbarks dying down here, even though they're not a huge distant from a major flood plain. There's several instances I've noticed recently of widow makers, that have dropped boughs while still green and not affected by wind or past fire, but undoubtedly stressed.

    The ornamentals seem to be suffering with the new water restrictions too, a 150m hedge yesterday at one of the factory complexes, noticed it had carked it since Xmas.

    Quote Originally Posted by bollie7
    I don't know if the Eucalyptus oil stays in the leaves that are brown or not, but if it does that would also add to the intensity of the fire.
    Doubt there's any residue. One of the research papers from a few years ago, had the green leaf in the canopy, releasing a cloud of an ideal combustion vapor oil mix when the fire strikes. The speculation was, a competitive advantage to drive out less fire tolerant species of trees and take over habitat.

  7. #37
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    Greenies have a lot to answer for of course they will say it climate change.


    ABC Attempts to Memoryhole Story on Fuel Reduction Burn Protesters - The Unshackled


    183 PEOPLE ARRESTED FOR STARTING BUSHFIRES IN AUSTRALIA

    183 people arrested for starting bushfires in Australia - TR News

    Ratty 05/2004 -05/07/2010 COOPER 01/08/1998-31/01/2012

  8. #38
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    Ratty 05/2004 -05/07/2010 COOPER 01/08/1998-31/01/2012

  9. #39
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    Thanks Baron J for your expression of concern.

    For me it is not an issue at all - except for the all pervasive smoke.

    I have a mate whose mother-in-law has a house in the fire zone to
    the south of Sydney (Lake Conjola). The fire approached very very
    fast and he was left to get two 80+ year olds to abandon their house
    and as non-swimmers, wade into the lake with his support, and
    watch their house go up completely in flames - NOTHING left.

    All he could say to me was how grateful he was for the support they
    received from the community - they evacuated in a small boat that
    had been called in by a jet skier who had decided to do one final
    check, and found them standing on a submerged rock and hanging
    onto each other. They were carried to a local accommodation cabin,
    which was then theirs to occupy as long as they needed it, and as
    they sat looking at each other and wondering, "Now, what?" a
    couple knocked on the door with towels, soap, clean clothes (all
    the correct size and appropriate for the ages), food, drinks, and
    a slab of beer - well, what more does an Aussie need - good mates
    and a couple of beers.

  10. #40
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    Yer gotta wonder just how this happened back in the 1850’s...

    “...The whole country was overspread with a thick, lurid, mysterious smoke, which reached far out to sea, and in some localities produced, even early in the afternoon, an almost total darkness. The light ashes from the burning forest were actually deposited on the decks of vessels hundreds of miles from land. Millions of acres of the country were swept by the fire during that dreadful day ; thousands of sheep, huddled together, were smothered and burnt as they stood ; crops, fences, paddocks stacks, out-buildings, huts and houses, for miles together, were involved in one common ruin, and many human beings were hemmed in and burnt to death...”

    ...considering it is ‘global warming’ that makes bush fires happen.


    An interesting observation via Jo Nova...

    Fires are not where the heat is, they?re where the fuel is « JoNova




    .

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBAF View Post
    Disagree, The fuel has always been there, its the extreme dry coupled with the extreme temperatures and high winds that are causing fires, the likes of which we haven't seen before.

  12. #42
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    Interesting Map - Bushfires in Australia early Nov 2019 - mid Jan 2020.
    Funny how no one talks about the large number of WA fires.
    A few years ago I flew from Tokyo to Perth during daylight hours.
    We cross over Kimberly coast, down thru the middle of WA to Perth and I counted 200 fires before I stopped counting.
    Screen Shot 2020-01-11 at 11.02.08 am.png
    I agree with Tony, Fuel is only one of the factors.
    Fuel, temp, humidity, long term dryness and wind.
    If it was just fuel, Tasmania would have gone up a long time ago, but don't worry, it won't be long before it does.

    Statements such as, "fire only happens where there's fuel" is a bit like saying, "testicular cancers happens in testicles", so let's rip out everyones balls?
    Because of elevated temps and general dryness fuel load reduction don't seem to have helped as much as in the past with fireies reporting that some of the fires now just burn straight through recent fuel load reduced areas. The drier it gets the worse this problem will become until fuel reduction won't make a cracker of difference.
    To keep the fuels loads down to where no bushfire would start or pass requires removal of all vegetation.

  13. #43
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    I've seen this image posted in various places. Presumably to demonstrate how the nasty nasty "greenies" have allowed the vegetation to over grow everything. However no one ever says that the photo from 2013 is probably closer to how it looked before the white men came and cut down most of the trees in an effort to farm the land as it would have been done in good old England.

    Bush Fires !-80698827_582852585826496_8518563552779304960_n-jpg

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bollie7 View Post
    I've seen this image posted in various places. Presumably to demonstrate how the nasty nasty "greenies" have allowed the vegetation to over grow everything. However no one ever says that the photo from 2013 is probably closer to how it looked before the white men came and cut down most of the trees in an effort to farm the land as it would have been done in good old England...
    Recommended reading - “The Biggest estate on Earth. How Aborigines Made Australia” by Bill Gammage.

    Via page 20 of the Gammage book: (1840’s) “...we drove (horse and buggy) a few miles out of town towards Mt Macedon on fine open grassy grounds of beautiful verdure in many places and very scantily wooded...”

    For some picys - Google “Veiw from melbourne, Hoddle 1847”




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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Interesting Map - Bushfires in Australia early Nov 2019 - mid Jan 2020.
    Funny how no one talks about the large number of WA fires...

    ...I agree with Tony, Fuel is only one of the factors.
    Fuel, temp, humidity, long term dryness and wind...

    ...Statements such as, "fire only happens where there's fuel" is a bit like saying, "testicular cancers happens in testicles", so let's rip out everyones balls?
    Because of elevated temps and general dryness fuel load reduction don't seem to have helped as much as in the past with fireies reporting that some of the fires now just burn straight through recent fuel load reduced areas. The drier it gets the worse this problem will become until fuel reduction won't make a cracker of difference.
    To keep the fuels loads down to where no bushfire would start or pass requires removal of all vegetation.
    Recommended reading - The entire article.. Fires are not where the heat is, they?re where the fuel is « JoNova

    From what I see Jo Nova is just being very reductio-ad-adsurdum to stress the point that No Fuel = No Fire. With a very fuel deficient fire you have a low intensity easy to manage fire. Start increasing the fuel load and the fire intensity increases. Anybody who has ever built a camp fire or used a wood stove understands these basics.

    From the book “Archaeology of The Dreamtime” by Josephine Flood we get this gem:
    ”...It is ironic that the Australian parklands and open woodlands so admired by the early settlers should have been created by the Aborigines they regarded as ignorant nomads. Yet when the Aborigines were driven off their land and the regular, light burning ceased, the old grass turned sour, scrub invaded the parkland, and the settlers’ fine houses, fences and sheep became victims of occasional uncontrollable bushfires...”




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