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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Did the crane load scales give you a different weight to Phil's? Of course any discrepancy with Phils weight will be the fault of the crane scales
    Thats exactly right, still wont explain why I wont be able to sleep tonight if I was wildly off balance.

    Off balance, get it? . And why the table come off? I'm guessing to split the load on that trailer So there was weight on the drive. Dont tell me it was 35 tonne, and thats why they went and got the big crane.
    Do they go so high with the crane to keep the angle of the chain legs in pretty tight?
    That was the opposite of tight. Tight is when you have to shorten up the chains / slings so you have a big choke angle. I'd guess that's about a 35T Liebherr. You can shoot the main boom of those up to about 30+m. You need to stand them up near vertical to get any sort of load at a short swing radius. The further you boom out /over, the rating goes way down.

    I had the benefit of inspecting that site. There's nothing above the lift site, no power lines. It may have hit a low flying plane, given its so close to Sydney Airport. So a perfect site to place a swing crane. Gives them all sorts of opportunities for head room. Chains to that spreader bar would have cost them 3 metres of daylight. If you have air, use it.

    Any time you dont have to de-rate rigging due to choke angle, is a good thing. The chain's on this lift were near vertical, thanks to the spreader bar. The chains going to the spreader bar was the week link. A single 20mm straight drop chain is rated at 12.5 tonne. Dual two leg with a 60 deg choke angle isnt twice that, but less @21.6 T. Short head room, on anything that needs shortening up drops to 12.5t across two legs & 120 deg, when you really need to shorten up.

    Bane of my life, every thing I do seems to be under roof. Over head cranes or Franna's at best. I keep this up my sleeve.
    http://www.crainsmachinerytransport.com.au/images/twinlift.jpg He has a 65T big brother. Steve's getting old. I'll buy them win I win the tatts.

    Regards Phil.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Did you have to worry about oversize? Or just do what we do here and just drive and everyone else will get out of the way
    There's a tunnel under the Airport. Botany out on a beach point, No way, no time of driving back through the tunnel oversize.

    I asked a 70 year old Sydney based truck driver about his the other week when I was in Sydney loading trucks. I remember King Georges Rd, because that was the last thing he told me. I think you turn left from where Mark was, hit the beach, sneak up the sand at low tide, come back up the service road at the airport, giving way to Greg Q, then you find the bitumen, head West, until King George, turn right, then left at the M4. Climb out over the hills from Penrith, and its a down hill 6 hour run to Trundle.

  3. #63
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    Mar 2012
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    Western NSW
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    So time to complete this story. I have been trying to sort out photos but apparently my I phone does not want to talk to my computer so will have to wait till one of the kids get back tomorrow to sort that out. Unfortunately that means no photos yet. But they will be worth it.

    Headed down to Sydney with my good friend Stuart last Thursday. Arrived late in the evening to avoid peak hour Sydney traffic. Selwyn (the owner) kindly allowed us to stay in his workshop so it was swags on the floor. On Phil's advice I had brought one of the MHA toe jacks. It was great. Well built and worked a treat. Can't see how I ever did without it. Also brought some Team Systems skates to replace the old Pacific roller skates. Again they were great value and a great improvement on the older roller skates.

    Despite having been there twice before I did not actually fully realise what Selwyn did. He has possibly the only workshop in the world that is a 'planer only' workshop. Any way I told him it is probably unique in the world. He was quite chuffed!!
    So for the last 60 odd years his father first and in more recent years Selwyn have made brake press dies. They had 4 planers, a drill, horizontal straightening press and a couple of grinders. No lathes/mills/surface grinders..... just planers. The planer I brought was in one unit and if you walked through the back door you went back in time to a true workshop museum. Three old planers, two of which are still used every day. One has been retired due to wear and excessive chatter. The main planer was made by Star Machinery in Alexandria Sydney! Selwyn thinks it was one of two made the other one was scrapped some years ago. Photos will be forth coming when I get my phone working.

    The story will continue in next post

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by markgray View Post
    The story will continue in next post
    Waiting with baited breath. Assuming its a good one, you would have said it it all turned pear shaped.

  5. #65
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    Phil you were pretty dead nuts on the weight. I will let Mark tell the rest.Selwyns shop was like stepping back in time unfortunately my photos dont do it justice I am so happy I got to see it. Considering your love of photos I will add a couple more. Amazing bit of kit that 55 tonne Liebherr crane
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by welder View Post
    Phil you were pretty dead nuts on the weight. I will let Mark tell the rest.
    I tell my customer's all the time. "I'm emotionally invested". I've had that come back to me on the shop floor and the board room, when I drop in a few days / weeks later to check on progress. I'll await until tomorrow, for the balance of the story. Thanks for the pics. Truly appreciated.

    I note Mark lashed out on the turn table / third skate. I never bother over 6T. They get too hard to turn, if you dont have them connected to a tug like a forklift. They turn best while in motion. In the trade it's called cutting or trimming a skate. 30 second's with a toe jack, you can re-trim them.
    (True story) Some of thebBest blokes I've ever seen at the caper are usually good hustlers at pool or billiards. They have an innate feeling for angles.

    Regards phil.

  7. #67
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    So on Friday we started to prepare the planer for lifting on the truck the following day. Oil was drained and the light and pendant were removed to reduce height. The planer had it's power hard wired in so we had to disconnect this at the sub board and make it safe for when the power was turned back on.

    It was decided to remove the counter weight as there was no mechanism for securing it in place. It also allowed us to reduce the overall weight as there was a lot of concern as to the size of crane needed to lift the planer onto the truck. For the same reason it was decided that the table would be removed. This also removed any chance of damage to the spiral drive gear underneath and any worry about it sliding off during the lift. It also allowed us to distribute the weight on the truck more evenly.

    Next was disconnecting the machine from the control cabinet. 47 wires needed labeling and cutting and securing. Finally we jacked up the planer and put the skates in place.

    During the day we managed to send some time in the other workshop watching the planer hand Alex plane a press die. He has been operating this planer for more than 20 years. He was happy enough to operate the planer while showing up his setups, various cutting tools, jigs etc while constantly listening to the noise of the planer for anything out of the ordinary.

    Andre dropped in after work to have a look and it was great to meet an someone as enthusiastic as him. He decided to come back the next day for the lift.

    It was beer and pizza that night while talking to Selwyn about his and his dads lifetime in the engineering business. The rise and rise of overseas competition and the loss of local capacity. He said they only get one in ten of the jobs he quotes on. There is always pressure to match overseas quotes and do more for less. He plans to close and retire soon.

    Saturday was lifting day. Rained heavily all night and into the morning but thankfully stopped before the crane was due. There was a fair bit of nervousness about the lift as it was all a bit tight. The door was 3050mm wide and the planer in its broken down state was 3000mm wide. Yes 25mm each side going out the door.
    The truck was only legal to 17 tonne and although Phil had weighted the machine at 16.1 tonnes we were not sure if we could load everything for one trip. The crane boss had come down on sat and felt the Franna would be able to pull out the planer and then load it ok.

    We had some issues making sure that the carpark was free of traffic for the lift. There are 4 other businesses using it even on sat but they eventually all moved there cars/vans/trucks for Sat afternoon.

    So the Franna arrived and it took a fair bit of time to get it out the door but eventually we got there. Counterweight was lifted out (300kg) and put to one side. Next the table was lifted off (2700kg) and put on blocks.
    The planer itself had holes for lifting bars but after many attempts we could not get the chains right because of the cross rails. If we when under the rails the chain angle was too great and exceeded their safe lifting rating. If we tried to go over the franna was extending its boom too much to cope with the weight. So eventually it was decided to go back to the depot for a bigger crane. But this stage about 3 hours had gone by and it was 2 pm saturday. Eventually they came back with a 55 tonne slew crane. It only just fitted in the space required and too a long time to set up. It was hot and humid and heavy work. In the end though it made light work of the lift and with a bit of fiddling the planer was positioned just were we wanted it on the truck. Planer body came in at 13 tonnes roughly (crane scales measure the entire load including chains/spreader bar etc) so the total weight came in at 16 tonnes ( if we add the 100L of oil we took out that makes 16.1 tonnes .....which is pretty close to Phil's estimate....I mean that is exactly what Phil said....amazing)

    In the end it took 6 hours to get every thing safely on the truck. Can't wait for that bill!!

    It then took us till 11pm to get everything chained down and prepared for the drive home the next day. Needed all the usual flashing lights,oversize signs and wide load flags attached.

    I had been worried about driving the over wide load out of Sydney. We were on the city side of the airport and were not allowed in the two tunnels that you would normally take out. After consulting the transport authority and looking at the possible routes we decided on one that seemed the best. Not the shortest but the best for a wide and highish load.
    We left at 5.30am on Sunday morning but it still took us 45 minutes to get around the tunnels and back onto the M5 freeway.

    The drive home was pretty uneventful and no problems. Only problem was the call from home to say we had 60mm of rain overnight and NOT to drive up the farm driveway to the shed I had planned to put the truck in. So it remains parked out in the open covered in tarps till things dry up enough to at least get it undercover.

    Will sort out the photo issues soon and post images of the lift but also Selwyns workshop and other planers.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by welder View Post
    Amazing bit of kit that 55 tonne Liebherr crane
    They pulled out the big guns. I love cranes. The 35 would have eaten it, but I guess that wasn't available.

    A 55T Lieb. Glad I wasn't paying for it. How ever, I'm going to predict, Botany Cranes come to the party somewhat? Did you get out of it for under $3k. Cranes in Sydney are Exi.



    That would be the 55T Liebherr. Same machine. It has 40 metres of hydraulic boom. Plus another 16 metre's of fly boom. It's way more machine than was needed, but their Franna wouldn't have been up to the lift.

    Good picture of spreader bar / choke angles. That top rig down from the hook until the spreader is close enough to call it 120 degs. Rob the rope tangler, should step in here. But it has more strain on the rigging at that angle, and a collapsable force working on the spreader.

    (On Edit) Some one really trusts their rigging. If you look closely, there two turkeys standing on that yacht. Either side of the two cross spreader bars.

  9. #69
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    I know now why Terex Franna is coming.out with a 40tonne model.
    BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

    Andre

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by welder View Post
    I know now why Terex Franna is coming.out with a 40tonne model.
    The other week when I was in Sydney. I got to have a little play with one of these. They let me drive it outside to put the counterweight on. Joy stick control, just like playing Playstation I'd imagine.

    Our crafty N.Z brothers are doing a knock off, that might be better than the original. TIDD, freakishly good machine.
    http://www.watm.com.au/_literature_1..._PC25_Brochure

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machtool View Post
    The other week when I was in Sydney. I got to have a little play with one of these. They let me drive it outside to put the counterweight on. Joy stick control, just like playing Playstation I'd imagine.

    Our crafty N.Z brothers are doing a knock off, that might be better than the original. TIDD, freakishly good machine.
    http://www.watm.com.au/_literature_1..._PC25_Brochure

    Small world, some of the people I was working with in Linz earlier this year, did some design work for Liebherr, some sort of laser alignment / measuring system if I recall correctly. Crane technology has certainly been keeping up.

    Good new on moving the planer successfully! can't wait to see some more pictures.

    Ray

    PS For some reason I cant' see the embedded yacht picture Phil posted, but when I copy the link I can? Here's the link for those who are curious.

    http://www.botanycranes.com.au/image...rge%20lift.jpg

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by welder View Post
    I know now why Terex Franna is coming.out with a 40tonne model.
    I've been watching that for years, it will have to be tri-axle to overcome current road weight wheel load limits. Current models carry the counterweight around on the front, in behind the spreader bar. Because all the counter weight is all ready on the rear axle. You have to drop that off the front, and attach it to the rear. They just make axle limits now.

    Terex, Yanks are slow on the pick up, they don't have swing loader container handlers. Terex also have Demag cranes. They swing into the market at 50T. I wouldn't expect Franna to be swimming in R & D Dollars trying to under cut them at 40T

    I prefered it when Frank and Anna owned the company.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Small world, some of the people I was working with in Linz earlier this year, did some design work for Liebherr, some sort of laser alignment / measuring system if I recall correctly. Crane technology has certainly been keeping up
    Some one at Liebherr has been splitting that atom. A Crane, picking up a model Crane, then a Crane picking up that Crane, then another Crane picking up that Crane. And so on and so forth, Crane to the power of the 4th.

    I think there was only 1,521 TONNES involved.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYpMz63WAjM

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machtool View Post
    I've been watching that for years, it will have to be tri-axle to overcome current road weight wheel load limits. Current models carry the counterweight around on the front, in behind the spreader bar. Because all the counter weight is all ready on the rear axle. You have to drop that off the front, and attach it to the rear. They just make axle limits now.
    Yes I would say the 25 tonne model must be near the limits on allowable wheel weight for road use. Was at Gladstone port one night and they have reacher stackers down there and they were quite large. They were lifting a steel pipe that went over 30 tonne and the front wheels were sinking in the ground 200mm as it shifted it to a new position in the yard. So a 40 tonne capacity pick and carry crane would have to distribute the load over many many wheels and still stay undersize.

    Is the Franna Mark had only a 20 tonne model? The 25 tonne model I had here lifting the grinder had the two boom lift rams directly under the boom, not out on the side as in Andre's photo.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  15. #75
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    Picture time!

    628.jpg Andre... the only young person I know who would give up his Saturday to help move a planer!! Thanks a lot
    627.jpg626.jpg625.jpg648.jpg650.jpg

    Skating the planer out the door. Even though it weighted 16 tonnes it was still possible to steer the back end with the steerable skate.

    655.jpg Counter weight coming out
    657.jpg Table being removed
    661.jpg Franna trying to lift the planer but could not get the right position
    662.jpg Big and expensive brother to the rescue. Have not got the bill yet but I am sure there will be sticker shock!! Lucky they waived to airport proximity crane fee. Yes every time they use a proper crane crane this close to the airport you are meant to fill in paperwork and have it approved and pay the appropriate fee.
    664.jpg665.jpg Lift off
    666.jpg Finally on the truck
    671.jpg Home at last!!

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