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  1. #106
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    1,322

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    I had planned to have a gal sheet floor with some kind of plastic sheeting over that to provide a slippery surface that wouldn't rust. I researched all kinds of plastic, then noticed I had access to some plastic dividers that you get from Amcor when you buy pallets of bottles (as you do in the wine game).
    Plastic Sheet.jpg

    I thought they'd be tough and durable. Turns out I've encountered harder cheese than this stuff, but it was easy to work with.

    Plastic Sheet Trimmed.jpg

    During the phase where I still believed in the strength of the plastic, I decided to do away with the steel floor and just use the plastic - I added a spine of 30x30x2.5 angle up the middle for extra support.

    For mounting the bearings, I decided on 50x10 bar. To line up with the floor, the sprockets needed to be 5mm below the centerline of the RHS frame, so I ended up needing to notch out 10mm from the upper support so it could sit lower - as I was planning to weld 75mm of the mount's length to the frame, I had to remove a 10x75 chunk from 10mm thick bar. I went through my options, and decided to give the $50 Gumtree bandsaw a go:
    Bandsaw Tricks 1.JPG

    It looked kinda ridiculous, but it worked:
    Bandsaw Tricks 2.JPG

    Really rather well:
    Bandsaw Result.JPG

    One or two needed a bit more taken off, so I used my "mill".

    I think this is one of those "can" rather than "should" setups.

    Milling.JPG

    But it did work well enough.

    The fixed end was simple enough, the adjustable end was a bit trickier, as I needed slots. I started with two 1/2" holes:
    Slotted Bearing Supports.jpg

    Then used a jig saw to cut between the holes, and cleaned it up with a carbide burr on a die grinder. I bought the die grinder and burr using a Bunnings gift card that'd been sitting in my wallet for months. The grinder cost $30, the burr was $70, which on one hand seemed extortionate, but on the other hand it was a gift card, so kind of free money. Having bought it about a month ago I hadn't had any use for it until now. By gosh it worked well

    Welded on the bearing mounts:
    Attaching Bearing Mount.JPG

    Slotted end installed - I made the slots too short - correcting that in place was not as easy as doing it before they were welded on.
    Slotted End Installed.jpg

    Drive end all ready to go:
    Drive End.JPG

    Floor in place:
    Floor in place.JPG

    And all together with plain chains installed for testing:
    Sheets and Chains installed.jpg

    My prototype bar is sitting on top.

    Next step is to sort out the drive system, which I think should be a chain. I've got zero experience with such things, but get the impression taperlock is a good solution - might have to go visit the bearing shop and see what they have. I'll then need some keyways in the shafts, which I'm hoping the neighbour can help with.

  2. #107
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

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    Nice work, that floor should work a treat, at least it won't cost a fortune to replace .
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

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    With a bit of rain around and a bunch of grafting to be done, which I do not enjoy, I thought it was time to make some progress on the trailer.

    First wheeled it in under cover and dropped out the auger and chute:
    First Prototype.jpg

    Then came cutting it off the chassis. This is a job where the plasma cutter would have been ideal, but I need to use two different circuits for that - one to run the compressor and one for the plasma machine. Unfortunately this shed only has the one circuit, so it was a job for the 5" grinder. The legs were only 1.6mm wall RHS, so it wasn't too hard.

    Then it was a matter of lifting the hopper off. Forks on the tractor and a ratchet strap made it really very easy:
    Hopper Removal.jpg

    And then we're back to the bare chassis:
    Bare chassis.jpg

    So on goes the conveyor deck, and I cut, drill and then notch out 34 cross bars and bolt them on (note: RS Components are surprisingly cheap for bulk (50-100) fasteners, and they do free next-day delivery)
    Coveyor and Bars.jpg

    It works. It takes some effort to move the conveyor due to the tension in the whole thing, and I've come to the conclusion that the drive cogs aren't quite the right size for the chain as there's a jump as the tooth that was pulling the chain around the cog releases and another skips forward to engage the next link, making me think the cog's pitch is a bit too small for the chain. These cogs are the newer ones on the donor machine that were in better condition that what looked to be the original ones.

    Not exactly sure what the best course of action is - I wouldn't have a clue who would sell sprockets of the correct size

  4. #109
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    Rusty, are you sure it's the sprocket and not the tab welding on the links causing the problem? Try slackening off the chain a touch, before looking at new sprockets.
    Was down at the local bolt and nut supplier, they recently had a delivery of a section of roller chain and bars from a self propelled header, already has the links attached to the chain and the bars bolt on. Thought it may be of interested to you..
    Kryn
    Last edited by KBs PensNmore; 22nd Sep 2016 at 05:30 PM. Reason: More Details on chain
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Rusty, are you sure it's the sprocket and not the tab welding on the links causing the problem? Try slackening off the chain a touch, before looking at new sprockets.
    No, the tabs and all that stay clear of the sprockets. I've dropped the tension a bit and added support for the chain underneath and will ignore it for the moment. The issue may come back once the conveyor is under load.

    Was down at the local bolt and nut supplier, they recently had a delivery of a section of roller chain and bars from a self propelled header, already has the links attached to the chain and the bars bolt on. Thought it may be of interested to you..
    Interesting - I look at the links on the chain I have and kind of wonder how much strain they can handle, and wonder how much effort it'll take to move the conveyor when there's 2 tonnes of material sitting on it...

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    1,322

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    Moving on, I added some timber runners underneath the conveyor for the bars to slide along, removing the sag that was there from the weight of the chain and bars.
    Tmber Runners.jpg

    The it was a matter of centering and lining up the conveyor on the chassis, and getting the height correct. I wanted to make the conveyor removable in case it needs to be modified or repaired. I spend a while trying to work out the best way, and settled on tapping holes in the side for M8 bolts, which is a bit dodgy as the walls are only 3mm, but I'll see how it works out and modify it if it's not strong enough.
    Conveyor Support.jpg

    Next step is to weld the bottoms of the support to the chassis, and then it'll be time to start work on the hopper.

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,049

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    How many M8 bolts supporting 2 Tonnes of manure? Is there room to weld blocks on to support the weight so the bolts are just holding it in position, not taking the weight?

    What is the height of the cross bars between the chains?

    Dean

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

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    There's 4 pairs of bolts on each side, so 16 in total. The hopper will be supported separately, and it will be taking some of the weight with its sloped sides. I think it'll be OK.

    The cross bars are 30x30x2.5 equal angle, 700mm long.

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    1,322

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    With the conveyor in place it was time to retrieve the hopper. Sat on its end, it really is quite big...
    Hopper on end.jpg

    I flopped it on to a trolley upside down so I could get at the outer framework.

    Hopper Before.jpg

    Then I fired up Mr Hissy the cheaparsed plasma and went to work... et voilą

    Hopper After.jpg

    The bottom of the hopper was about 400 wide before, it needs to be about 715, so there's going to be a bit of surgery required...

  10. #115
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    The conveyor, as mentioned, is 700mm wide (actually about 720 in total) while the bottom of the hopper was around 400 for the auger design, so I needed to widen the bottom opening, making the sides steeper (which should help with the feeding issues). That meant the ends had some gaps that needed filling in. I thought it'd be a tough job, as the shapes were quite random, but I was surprised how well tracing with a marker and cutting out with the plasma worked.

    Some neodymium magnets came in very handy for holding the patches in place.
    Sheet Metal Work.jpg

    With the ends patched up, it was time to flip it and place it onto the conveyor. The hopper is not super-heavy, but very large and awkward to work with - I've got no idea how I would have sorted this out without the forks on the tractor (and a bunch of chains - so much easier when you don't have to deal with stretch in ropes or straps), which made it very quick and easy to line up and place the hopper.
    Placing the Hopper.jpg

    Just need to put in 2 ribs on each side of the hopper, then 4 support struts on each side down to the chassis rails to support the weight in the hopper.

    After that it's time to install the drive mechanism, which means I'll have to go and harvest some hydraulics, and find out if my local bearing shop has a clue about chains and sprockets.

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    1,322

    Default Anyone know about chains?

    I've stolen the hydraulics off another machine as I did previously. Now I need to work out how to hook it all up.

    I've got a hydraulic motor with a 1 1/4" shaft, and the shaft on my conveyor is 1". I know the motor will spin faster than I need (but there's a flow divider to slow it down) and I know it has heaps of torque, but there's an adjustable relief valve to manage that so it doesn't rip the thing to pieces if there's a jam - eventually I'll get a motor specifically for the machine which will probably be smaller.

    My current thinking is to use a single 3/4" chain with a 15 tooth sprocket on the motor and a 30 tooth on the conveyor. Does this sound reasonable?

  12. #117
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    I rang the local bearing & fastener shop and got put through to one of the "bearing guys". After working out that a taper lock bush is not the same as a brass bush, he then struggled to find a 2517 series bush with 1" bore. He then asked me what 1" was in millimeters. I told him 25.4 - "oh yeah, there's a 25mm one". This is their "bearing guy".

    The other bearing shop had more of a clue, but clearly neither do much business in these things.

    In the end, the best option was Blackwoods, particularly with their online catalogue and pricing (once you register). They ended up being considerably cheaper for some bits than the bearing shops, but there's a lead time of a week or more on some things, so in the mean time I'll work on the mount for the motor.

  13. #118
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    So while I wait for the sprockets and chain to appear, I thought I'd get on and make up the motor mount. Potentially there'll be a lot of torque required to move the conveyor, and I figured that the motor needed to be mounted to the conveyor itself (rather than the trailer chassis) to avoid putting stress through connections that weren't designed to take it. However the motor has to be mounted a bit away from the conveyor to clear the bars. I used a bit of 12mm plate, 180 x 250.

    I foolishly tried to plasma cut the 12mm plate, making a god-awful mess. I pondered using my GMC metal-cutting circular saw, and in hindsight I probably should have gone with that from the start, as it makes for a very clean cut (unlike the plasma) and can handle the thickness - I once ripped a 600mm long piece of 20mm bar down to size with it. However, as the cut was a mess with the plasma attempt, I used the bandsaw, cutting from both sides. Slow, but it got the job done.

    Once cut so size (-ish) it needed an 80mm hole to match the motor flange. The best I had was a 76mm hole saw, which my drill press on the lowest speed was still too fast for, so making that hole was not a pleasant experience. Then I still had to remove 2mm of material. I started grinding out the full depth with a carbide burr on the die grinder, which did a nice job, and remained remarkably circular despite being done by hand. I then worked out that the raised section of the motor face that needed to fit in the hole was only about 3mm high, so I completed the enlargement by only cutting around half way through.

    Once that was done, it was a matter of some pilot holes for fastening it to the conveyor, and some 1/2" holes for the motor:
    Motor Mount.jpg

    The mess of small holes at the top was me changing my mind about how to fix the plate to the side of the conveyor, which is only 3mm wall RHS. First I thought I'd use 8 x M8 bolts, but thinking further I realised this still wouldn't be that strong into the thin wall. Then I decided I'd use 4 x M8 bolts, but have some 12mm thick flat bar inside the RHS, so I'd be tapping into a total of 15mm.

    Just an aside - when I was looking into sprockets, I decided to Google the part number on the hydraulic motor I'd borrowed. The results confirmed it was a 1 1/4" shaft. Also revealed that the motor lists for $1,500+

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    So my sprockets and chain arrived.

    Sprockets and Chain.jpg

    Gotta say, 3/4" chain looks like it just might be strong enough

    I didn't have any keyway lying about, so I dropped it off at the neighbour over the road who happens to have a mill.

    In the mean time, I got on to mounting the motor. According to the Rules of Chains, the distance between centres should be at least 30 times the chain pitch, with 3/4" chain that worked out to 570mm.

    Mounting the Motor.jpg

    I wanted to attach the motor mounting plate to the side of the conveyor without having any protrusions from the conveyor so it could be slid out if needed. Tapping the 3mm wall of the RHS as I did for mounting the conveyor wasn't really inspiring much confidence when it came to this beast of a motor, so I slid a piece of 12 x 50mm flat bar inside the RHS and plug welded it in place behind where the motor plate was going, then drilled and tapped it for 4 x M10 bolts:

    Mounting Holes.jpg

    The tapped depth is a total of 15mm, I have no idea of the shear strength of the 3 plug welds, but I expect something else will break before this lets go

    With the conveyor drive shaft back from the neighbour and all keyed up, it was a matter of putting it all together:

    Chain On.jpg

    A bit of hydraulic plumbing, although the lines to the motor are too short, but fine for testing, then hooking it up to my oil supply (tractor), throwing in some very wet mulch and seeing if she'll move...

    Moving Mulch.jpg

    I probably loaded in only about 2/3 of a m3 of material, but it was wet, dense and heavy. The conveyor moved it very convincingly, although the pressure increased significantly once the pile of mulch that had slid along the hopper met the exit hole, as I guess it then had to shear the material off the bottom.

    It's not clear how it'll behave with a full load, but there seems to be plenty of strength and plenty of power, so I'm reasonably confident it'll work. Full testing, however, requires at least 4m3 of mulch, which I don't have lying about at the moment.

    Assuming that works, it'll be then a matter of sorting out a side conveyor, and for that I'm inclined to source a unit commercially.

  15. #120
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
    Age
    68
    Posts
    306

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    re sourcing a side conveyor, have you thought about using something akin to a snow blower?
    main conveyor transfers the mulch into a small hopper from where the snow blower shoots it out to the side
    regards from Canmore

    ian

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