Thread: Whisperings

Don't get me wrong i love steam machinery,but you will have a hard time finding young people who are interested in steam or machinery and mechanics in general. This startes right back ať highschool, I was the first person ať my school to use the lathes in 30 years for example
I hope that there is more interest as i would hate to not have live steam events and museums

It may not be all bad. I know a young bloke,24 I think he would be, who went to our Powerhouse Museum in Tamworth. They have a boiler there that used to supply power for the town a long time ago. Like most of these things there is a small but active group of (ageing) restorers that fire the old girl up once a month. This young guy went for a look and was so smitten that he has gone to Tafe to get his boiler attendant's ticket so he can run the show.
He is a quiet unassuming kid so the future of this little museum is assured for a while longer.
It seems the kids of "now", want to just plug something in and "play" with it rather than finding an old something and play with it. May be the generation after these will say "Why weren't the old things kept.
You just have to look at old railway stations that exhibit the original structure and fancy bits to realise it was an era where people "bothered". Even in the castings of steam machinery ....those people bothered and made the most humble part, a thing of beauty, rather than just a utilitarian bracket or cover.

Two great posts chambezio,
it is a bit of a dilemma generally with regard to the amount of young people putting their hand up to learn this type of work.
There is not a lot of call for it outside of places like us but by the same token there is a lot of machinery that is simply going to grind to a halt because nobody knows how to set a simple slide valve.
Sure it is written down in books, but very few explain how to make or even what a 'trammel' for setting valves looks like. These books were written at a time when the vast majority of people were familiar with steam equipment. If you mentioned 'crankshaft' back in the late 1800's most kids would know what you were talking about. I can almost guarantee a lot of blank stares from todays youth, which is perfectly natural, a sign of the times.
Occasionally a young bloke will come in at work and be able to run rings around me with regard to steam engines etc. Problem is, he hasn't discovered girls. This discovery normally creates a long hiatus but at least the potential is there for the future. These guys (and girls) are few and far between.
In less than 3 months we will be down to 2 full time drivers as the third is about to retire. We all fear that some equipment will have to be shutdown. As it is, there is an outstanding winding engine that is capable of running but for the last 7 years, that I know of, hasn't turned one revolution. Engines have a much larger life span if they are run everyday, left to sit, and they slowly die although, will never die out.
Running a 'working' engine is different to running a privately owned engine at a rally say. These engines are in our temporary care and what we do to them is going to be our legacy.
With a working engine there are higher pressures on bearings, journals, conrods, pistons etc due to being hooked up to machinery, and being temporary caretakers and not owners, heaps a fair bit of responsibility squarely on our shoulders.
Ya have to love what you do... and I do.

Phil

Rod great posts.

Some points on why younger generations do not get more involved.
Even during my younger years working at a Vintage Auto Museum the owner was keen to allow me to to learn the operation of two steam driven machines which were running one a traction engine the other farm tractor. Unfortunately the manager (I have to say it this way) unionistic, closed minded idiot put an immediate stop to it. I was 22 yrs, I never lost the passion for steam, I always knew that to become more involved I would have to fight the powers the union and Dept Of Labour & Industry to become involved. Many coveted their knowledge it was as they say a "Closed Shop" in many respects.

One teacher during school years use to say to some kids "You wouldn't have the brains to stoke an engine fire" he thought this to be the 3rd lowest of low jobs only to garbage and toilet can collection.

At every chance LOML and I as well as our children try to pass on the "Old world" which has been before to our four grandchildren all (one being a girl) love the sight sounds and smell of steam. Such TV shows as Thomas The Tank Engine foster little minds, taking them to model steam shows, they all have been to Zig Zag Railway 2 of the boys have been to Tarhmour Steam Museum. This is not to say they do not have modern day toys or electronics or do not spend time out doors or in sports or other activities.

Like wise just this year we took the oldest grandson to The Medieval Fair at Blacktown which he totally enjoyed, until pop took ill and we had to head home but plans are to go again next year.

I guess what I am saying is there is so much out there for kids today to experience, enjoy and learn it can at times become over the top and scary for them.

Hi all,
A few interruptions with other work but still managing to make headway. The lubricator on the steam chest was leaking quite a bit so after a preliminary lap in of one of the cocks I decided to machine up a new spindle. It was nigh on impossible to measure the taper so I chose 3 deg as it is about close. This meant setting the valve body up to machine a taper to match.
The valve body had been in the wars as will become evident in the pics which gave me very little in the way of a datum to work off. It stretched the grey matter, which is diminishing as it is, but managed anyway.
The handle for the spindle has a 3/8" BSF thread on it and due to a lack of taps and dies, it will now be 3/8" BSW . I will make another complete spindle in the very near future back to original spec but will use this one in the interim.
When I drilled the hole for the spindle handle it needed to be in line with the hole in the tapered section. I have no idea what went wrong other than the spindle rotated when I was tightening the collet chuck and the handle and spindle hole are not in alignment.
Definitely making a new spindle in the very near future.
Thanks Stuart for pointing out the extra pic.

Phil
DSCN2047.JPG DSCN2078.jpg DSCN2122.JPG DSCN2128.JPG DSCN2088.JPG DSCN2091.JPG DSCN2094.JPG DSCN2104.JPG DSCN2106.JPG DSCN2109.JPG DSCN2111.JPG DSCN2114.JPG DSCN2120.JPG

Hi Phil,

Fantastic photos and great descriptions, almost feel like I'm looking over your shoulder.

Have you been getting pic lessons from BT?

Well done!

Ken

Originally Posted by neksmerj

Hi Phil,

Fantastic photos and great descriptions, almost feel like I'm looking over your shoulder.

Have you been getting pic lessons from BT?

Well done!

Ken

Thanks Ken but BT is several grades higher which gives me something to aim for

Phil

Nice setup Phil, sometimes I question the setups I come up with since I'm a self taught hack, but a lot can be learned by seeing what is possible and what works from other peoples work!

Have you recently done a photographic course?

I always wonder how close things come to flying off the face plate with those sort of setups!

Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

Nice setup Phil, sometimes I question the setups I come up with since I'm a self taught hack, but a lot can be learned by seeing what is possible and what works from other peoples work!

Have you recently done a photographic course?

I always wonder how close things come to flying off the face plate with those sort of setups!

Simon

Thanks Simon,
with setups as I say, "you are only limited by your imagination" although sometimes we have to limit our imagination a bit.
I have never done a photographic course but nowadays the camera does all the work. I use a coolpix camera and that's only so I don't have to resize them for the forum. It takes pics already in the recommended size for posting.
I haven't had anything fly off the faceplate...yet. The big problem is getting hit by it as you have to remember that a lot of the projections aren't as visible while it is running as they are when stationary.
It is a matter of 'how far away can I get while machining' not 'how close can I get while machining'.
Here is a pic of another setup to clean up a thread on a large ummm tap/cock/valve (one of them)

Phil
DSCN2066.jpg

Love the counterweight Phil!

I had a fixing come loose at 750rpm, spat the 3mm thick ally shim i had clean across the shop, but the clamp and work all stayed in place, the work was on a spigot in the head taper and had another clamp on it. Glad i was standing to the side.....

I really like the new thread style with with pics and descriptions, could read it all day.

Ew

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

Here is a pic of another setup to clean up a thread on a large ummm tap/cock/valve (one of them)

DSCN2066.jpg

That's a new one - I'd have never of thought of using an adjustable angle plate to get a tapered thread like that. I am finding as I do more and more that driving the machine is less than half the job. Working out how to hold things is the trickier bit.

Michael

Originally Posted by Ueee

Love the counterweight Phil!

I had a fixing come loose at 750rpm, spat the 3mm thick ally shim i had clean across the shop, but the clamp and work all stayed in place, the work was on a spigot in the head taper and had another clamp on it. Glad i was standing to the side.....

I really like the new thread style with with pics and descriptions, could read it all day.

Ew

Thanks Ew,
I wondered if anyone would pick up on the counterweight . It did the job beautifully and it was close and handy at the time.
I'm glad you were standing to the side when the shim let go too, I can't even walk past the faceplate when I'm doing that type of machining.
I was also wondering if the 'in pic' captions were better or worse. I wasn't sure if they were distracting or not.

Phil

Originally Posted by Michael G

That's a new one - I'd have never of thought of using an adjustable angle plate to get a tapered thread like that. I am finding as I do more and more that driving the machine is less than half the job. Working out how to hold things is the trickier bit.

Michael

Hi Michael,
I'm actually using the angle plate set at ninety deg. (it's a parallel thread). It just happens to be the only angle plate I have. Not sure it could be used to cut a tapered thread though.
With the new (to us) surface grinder of the Jones and Shipman 540 type I will be able to perhaps grind a couple up. Woo Hoo!
Working out how to hold things certainly can be tricky especially with some of the things I am presented with. If you have a datum to work off it is just your imagination that holds you back although sometimes the hard part is working out 'what' the datum was in the first place, then it becomes fun fun fun. If the datum is damaged and needs to be re-machined, it is just a matter of going back to 'laying out' like you would on a new casting to make sure all the operations can be executed. Actually that sounds harder than it really is.
Sometimes most of the machining is to make standoffs, supports and special purpose clamps etc etc. I have on more than one occasion spent the better part of the day on set up and a few minutes to actually machine the part
The challenge of successfully completing a 'head scratcher' is the best part of this game.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Those captions on your pics are gold!

I don't have the confidence with half the stuff I do on a face plate to ever stand end on to it! I alway stand near the TS. The TS is my friend in these circumstances!

When I started this machining hobby, I quickly realised that work holding is a very big part of the whole thing. Workholding and machining to an existing datum is something I never even thought about until I deviated from basic turning of round stock when learning about speeds and feeds.

I had the pleasure of a quick visit from Stuart yesterday and while standing in my messy shed (which he said was looking more and more like his ) we laughed at how often it's 95% setting up and and 5% machining!

WRT the counterweight, there have been a number of times where I have looked at the setup and decided a counter weight was not required. It's funny how quickly you change your mind when you start the thing up and the lathe starts bouncing around! So much for my "precision" levelled lathe, now it's all out again!

Simon

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

Thanks Ew,
I wondered if anyone would pick up on the counterweight . It did the job beautifully and it was close and handy at the time.
I'm glad you were standing to the side when the shim let go too, I can't even walk past the faceplate when I'm doing that type of machining.
I was also wondering if the 'in pic' captions were better or worse. I wasn't sure if they were distracting or not.

Phil

The best thing I find about the new style is that I can read the captions without having to download the pictures. I download any pictures that I find more interesting, or I need to see better, but with my limited internet download plan I am restricted a bit.

I'm actually using the angle plate set at ninety deg. (it's a parallel thread). It just happens to be the only angle plate I have. Not sure it could be used to cut a tapered thread though.

There is only one way to find out!

Sometimes most of the machining is to make standoffs, supports and special purpose clamps etc etc. I have on more than one occasion spent the better part of the day on set up and a few minutes to actually machine the part

Amen to that.

Dean