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Thread: Taps & Dies

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Adelaide
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    66
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    Default Taps & Dies

    Well question time again
    I have decided to purchase a good tap & die set, I currently have a cheap a$$ metric tap & die set it cost about $70.00. When you use it it cuts very rough threads, Many years ago I used good sets and as I remember they cut really well. I rang up General tools for advice and they recommended I just buy the holders and bits and dies as I need, as a lot of sizes I will never use. So do you guyz reckon this is the go or should I get a s/h set from say http://www.moyles.com.au/ , or just buy a complete new set.
    Next thing is If I get a set I gather I need to get imperial and metric, man this will break the bank! This buying a lathe is costing me a fortune LOL
    Cheers
    Gene

    Holden Hill Crash Repairs
    607 North East Road
    Gilles Plains South Australia 5086
    (08) 8261-3979
    [email protected]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    melbourne
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    53
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    Default

    Hi Footz thee is Little point in buying the sizes that you are unlikely to ever use so just the buy as you go all so I have found that quality tapes and dies pay for them selfs Meany times IE taping a hole is quite often the last job to do on a part you have made and you snap the tape in the hole because the cheap tap hasn't been temped properly or docent cut an accurate thread because the die wasn't ground propel. I don't recommend buying second hand unless you con tel if the tap or die is blunt

  3. #3
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    minto
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    Default

    buy metric 4mm 5mm 6mm 8mm 10mm and imperial 3/16 1/4 5/16 3/8 that should cover most small jobs i buy individual as the need arrises

  4. #4
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    Nov 2006
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    Bendigo Victoria
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beetle View Post
    buy metric 4mm 5mm 6mm 8mm 10mm and imperial 3/16 1/4 5/16 3/8 that should cover most small jobs i buy individual as the need arrises
    That's only half the story though, I have quite a few metric taps/dies (trying to standardise on metric) but for each size you also have different thread pitches.

    In Imperial there is UNC, UNF, Whitworth, then in the small sizes BA and the list goes on.......

    Picked up a P&N set of 3 M10x1.5, brand new, at Laverton Markets yesterday for the princely sum of $15, local supplier wants $48 for that set.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2006
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    Australind , WA
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    Default

    I have a different opinion. If it was me, I would buy a complete set and be done with it. Yes, you may be buying sizes you will never use, but when it comes to wanting a certain size, for a job,there is a good chance you will already have it and the job can continue without any dramas. One of the most frustrating things of a home workshop, is not having the right sized tap or die on hand when you need it! A 5 minute job turns into a epic marathon!
    Also it is cheaper to buy a full set, than to keep nipping down the hardware store to buy individual taps or dies, when you need them. I live in a small-ish town that does not have a good local tool store anyway, so any 'odd' sized tools have to be ordered.
    I only use metric tools, so that makes it a little easier to 'tool up' as it were....
    As you were.....
    Sterob

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    Default

    Years ago I bought a set of chinese taps and dies..Sure there are some I am yet to use and some I have worn out and have replaced but the quality of these taps is quite good.. I should add that I do not live in a town so I really need a set on hand as I cannot simply drive down the road to collect a new one...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    brisbane
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    245

    Default

    I picked up a large metric P&N tap and die set at an auction which is the basis of my collection - cost me $110 with a 2nd Kinchrome set, but it is a $800 set by itself (6-24mm). The rest of my taps are 3 tap sets I have picked up off ebay for heaps cheaper than new over the past few years. 3 tap sets are essential for a professional job, you can easily start a thread with the taper and then finish off nicely with the bottom and the intermediate gives you the versatility for shallow blind holes where you need to get it started but the taper is too long to engage.

    There is a massive difference between a decent die and a chinese die when you chase a thread. Like chalk and cheese IMHO.
    Same with taps. P&N, Sutton and the other 1st world country brands are the thing to get.

    However don't underestimate the need for good die and tap handles.
    I have a pretty impressive collection of them now all based around my P&N set, however a long (ie 200mm) Eclipse tap holder is one of the handiest things for cars, whilst the small Starrett holders are fantastic for ensuring you don't snap that 4mm tap off in a steel part.
    Cheers

    Craig
    Brisbane

  8. #8
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    Hi big SHED i guess i was just by what i use as a maintenance fitter , it good to see thr ball rolling with these types of disscussion

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Katherine ,Northern Territory
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    IMHO you cant get better than P&N or Sutton .
    MY collection of taps and dies is some what mis-matched ,buying what I needed at the time , some of the bosses getting thrown in the tool box after use ,and picking up items on Ebay.
    I have collected a full set of Whitworth taps 1/8" up to 1" and some dies , a full set of UNF and UNC taps and dies 1/4" up to 1" a few BSF taps and dies and a motley collection of Metric .

    I bought a set of cheap ($40.00 )taps and dies at the local auto shop just to get the smaller unf /unc sizes ,but they are junk ,and will be replaced gradually .

    Kev.
    "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend ,inside a dog it's too dark to read"
    Groucho Marx

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Grafton, N.S.W.
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    Default

    G'day.
    I buy as I need then.
    I mostly do Gunsmithing and need UNEF taps & Dies..
    1/2x28 and 9/16x32.
    These get expensive. The 9/16x32 Die was $60 on its own.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor
    Grafton

  11. #11
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    Feb 2007
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    brisbane
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glock40sw View Post
    G'day.
    I buy as I need then.
    I mostly do Gunsmithing and need UNEF taps & Dies..
    1/2x28 and 9/16x32.
    These get expensive. The 9/16x32 Die was $60 on its own.
    They're pretty big what are they used on? Wouldn't be a comp and doesn't sound like a rifle barrel thread - not that you would use a die on a barrel thread!
    Cheers

    Craig
    Brisbane

  12. #12
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    Lindfield N.S.W.
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    Default

    My solution was to double up - I bought metric and BSW Chinwanese sets and then good quality for the sizes I use a lot. Means I have a spare if I break a good tap so I can keep on working without going out to get a replacement and I am likely to have the size I need if it is one I don't normally use. Gradually the Chinwanese sets have been whittled away and I will just keep adding better taps and dies as I go along until the whole set is complete with doubles for the commonly used ones.
    Cheers

    Jeremy
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly

  13. #13
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    minto
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    Default

    GREAT to see so many replies

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hux View Post
    They're pretty big what are they used on? Wouldn't be a comp and doesn't sound like a rifle barrel thread - not that you would use a die on a barrel thread!

    Yep, Hux. Compensators for Glocks.

    1/2x28 suits Federal barrels and 9/16x32 is the KKM standard thread which is a good size for 9mm Barrels for the Glocks.
    I make my own comps out of Ali and Ali with a stainless steel sleeve to prevent baffle erosion.

    The barrels are threaded on the lathe.

    Also 1/2x28 is the standard thread size for AR15 flashhiders and other attachments.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor
    Grafton

  15. #15
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    Default

    Hi Gene
    I see there are lots of new posts for me to now read. I have been away on business down to Melbourne and have just arrived back. You have discovered now that the lathe is the cheapest item of the workshop. It's all the accessories that go with it that make it all so expensive.
    To answer your original question
    Its best to buy taps and dies as you need them. The Chinese taps and dies are very expensive as you have to throw these away and then buy high quality tools to replace them. The best brands are Sutton and P&N. There are lots of American taps and dies that are excellent in quality and are as good or better than Sutton or P&N. The usual way to tell if the taps and dies are good quality is to note the finish of the threads on the taps. If the threads are bright and shiny, they will have been thread ground to form and size. The chip grooves will also be ground as this is where the cutting edges are formed and sharpened. The same goes for the dies but the threads wont be ground as such unless you pay out big dollars. If the thread cut by a die is rough, the die is a "chucker" and is now a fishing sinker. But first try using a variety of thread cutting lubricants to make sure the die has actually worn out or badly made. No-one sells second hand taps and dies unless they are worn out. If the threads are rusty on the tap or die, its a "chucker". Such tools lose their thread shape and form and will jamb and tear the thread making it useless. Some will disagree with this as it depends on how much rust there is on the tools.
    As for general sizes, I sugest a set (bought as you need them) as listed: 1/4 in UNC and UNF; 5/16 UNC and UNF; 3/8 UNC and UNF; 1/2 UNC and UNF; Then metric in M6x1, M8x1.25, M10x1.5 and M10x1.25, M12x1.75 and others only as you need them. I wouldn't bother with 3/16x24 tpi (threads per inch) taps as the thread is too coarse and the taps snap like chalk. All "normal" UNC threads will accept BSW bolts except in 1/2". The 1/2" UNC has 13 tpi and the 1/2" BSW has 12 tpi. For finer Imperial sizes of taps, I would buy them in the Number series and also in metric but only when they are needed. The American Number series are very good but you need a formula to work out the tapping drill size. I will post this later as a separate post on threads and tapping.
    Kody

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