Thread: New use for Oxy Acetylene set?

I'm hoping Grahame will jump in here, our revered welding technologist.

Years ago, I worked for CIG, and one of the perks was a "very cheap" oxy set.

It's been sitting under the house for many years unused, simply because I refuse to pay the exorbitant rental costs, even for small D size bottles.

My question is this, what other forms of gas can be used, if any.

For example, can I hook it up to town gas with say compressed air?

I know it's a dumb question, but there may be others in my boat who no nothing.

Ken

Wow and i thought it was only me who came up with deadly new uses for things!
I recently found out after working a job at the BOC gas plant that they extract almost all their gases out of the air (yes the air we all breathe), compress it til liquid (REALLY cold), fractionally distill it, then sell it back to us. Mind you, they use a LOT of power to do that, so i guess the prices we pay are reasonable(ish).
Acetylene tanks can only be filled with said gas, it is done through an absorbtion method into some sort of mystery medium- which is the reason they must be transported upright. O2 tanks are just an empty cylinder, so could be filled with anything, given the right bodges together fittings.
I guess you want to use the torches with other fuels, and also guess it isnt possible. Jets etc must be suited to the application (bottle gas and town gas are not compatible for example). If you are keen for it, it could be possible to cobble together some kind of natural gas/ O2 burner, but if you are dealing with town gas, you might burn off more than your eyebrows. If it were as simple as that, there would be a product available in store one would think. Do you really need that much heat? Propane alone is sufficient for most tasks up to brazing. O2 is really only needed for cutting and special metal applications.
Good luck, just dont tell the wife what you are up to!!

hang on a sec while I don my ear muffs ....somewhere there is gonna be a loud bang and several expleatives

Ken, as I have said to others, lots of things can be done but should they?
I am sure that some method of supplying an alternative fuel and an oxidant could be devised, but it will be extremely hard to get the same temps etc that oxy acet will provide.

Anything based on Natural gas, LPG, or MAPP gas will run significantly cooler. I still have a small unit that I got 30 years ago that ran MAPP gas and obtained oxygen from smoldering pellets in a sealed cylinder. Was marginally hotter than MAPP and air, but still nowhere oxy acet. Cost to run, about $3 per minute for the pellets in mid 70's dollars. Life span of the pellets, rusted out the can in 6 months, the chamber in 12 months, after running less than 1 pellet through it.

When we were doing doing a run of brass tube furniture bases at work about 3 years ago, our platers suggested that we use a vapour flux unit for the oxy as there was less oxidation to clean up on the job. They even lent us a spare unit in the hope that we would buy it. We didn't, but the blew theres up about a year later.

Oxy acet can be a friend if used within design parameters, but a very nasty enimy if you go outside them. Don't.

I am also interested in this question, specifically can I use an acetylene regulator to run LPG? I have spoken to one distributor via email and they suggest that I can, but I would like some independent confirmation. Next question is where can I get a low millage 2nd hand one, or should I go new?

My interest is in building a Ron Reil style burner for forging and casting. http://ronreil.abana.org/burner.gif and http://ronreil.abana.org/ezburner.shtml

neksmerj/ Ken - you may be able to an run oxy/ LPG setup, provided the regulators are compatible.

James

Originally Posted by yjnb

I am also interested in this question, specifically can I use an acetylene regulator to run LPG? I have spoken to one distributor via email and they suggest that I can, but I would like some independent confirmation. Next question is where can I get a low millage 2nd hand one, or should I go new?

My interest is in building a Ron Reil style burner for forging and casting. http://ronreil.abana.org/burner.gif and http://ronreil.abana.org/ezburner.shtml

James

I purchased an LPG regulator a few years ago for exactly the same reason. Cost around $130 from memory.

To any and all intending to have an incident. A forum member was concerned enough to PM about this.

Crikey & Flippin Heck!
I take my eye off you blokes for a while and some of you start to get dangerous.

Acetylene is the most efficient fuel gas on the planet and the most dangerous.
Why? Because it generates the highest BTU's for a given weight.

What is important to you, is:

Acetylene has the widest explosive range, meaning it can detonate any where in between 7% and 91% mix with air.Note! I said air not oxygen.The percentages may not be exact.

I sat in on a fire chiefs lecture 30 years ago and my memory is getting shaky.

Please don't play be your own gas fitter if you have no idea of what acetylene or other volatile mixes are capable of. Playing around with volatile gases is a certified or licensed occupation and for good reason ,too!

The price you can possibly pay just to save a dollar can be far too high.

Yes! oxygen / LPG is a system used in gas cutting but it will not weld.The gas does not generate enough BTU's to melt (ie weld ) steel.
Using Acetylene Regulators to run LPG is plain bloody stupid.Give the distributor the flick before he contributes to your demise.I believe LPG regs are built much differently to accommodate such matters as different draw off rates and pressures. Add to this that the torches are different as are the cutting nozzles. You require dedicated equipment for LPG.

Stop talking to the counter hoppers and find a real gas fitter.I know a chap who repairs regs for a living and will trust his judgment in these matters over that of a a counter jumper any day.

If you are so keen to do this ,go and do the gas fitters course and get the license. Otherwise don't bugger around with it. Someone is likely to get hurt!

AM I SUBTLE ENOUGH ?

Grahame

very subtle indeed, maybe you should be more explicit

Crikey & Flippin Heck!
I take my eye off you blokes for a while and some of you start to get dangerous.

And I see no one liked my spit idea either.

Running LPG through an acetylene regulator is not on my list of fun to do backyard activities; while broadly compatible (both are a flammable gas under pressure) I'd have nagging doubts about compatibility of seals/grease meant for acetylene in LPG; an acetylene reg is also built for much higher pressures, and different flow rates, so I'd also worry about metering inaccuracy and regulator icing (can be used for cooling beer).

Have you thought about using a forge burner that runs on used cooking oil - environmentally friendly and smells like fish and chips!

I did say it was a dumb question, so dumb in fact I feel like crawling under the desk and staying there.

Reckon the best thing I could do is the sell the oxy set, and get friendly with a local workshop.

This matter is closed.

Fossil, don't take heart, looks like members have spat on your idea.

Ken

Hi Ken
OK its all right ,I did not mean to offend you.Come out from under the bench and we we all sort out what can be salvaged from this.

I may have been over the top but it guarantees attention.
Far too often going the cheapy route is a pre cursor to some one about to get hurt.

I think its time for a little info series on :
Oxy acetylene cutting
Brazing
heating.

I have now ceased being a teacher and returned to the engineering sector after 25 years, so I have fewer spare hours,so it will take some time.
Being responsible for some kids who won't take on any of their own has got to me me bigtime.

I got sick of lying awake at night worrying about the potential risks some of these idiots expose themselves to.


Grahame

Gee, I've wandered into the nanny state.

In the old days, when I was young, welders didn't buy acetylene in tanks like you do now, you made your own. I've got plans for an acetylene generator if anyone wants a copy.

Pure oxygen is a bit more tricky as you have to cool air to about 70 kelvin and as mentioned distill it off. If your just building a forge then air will probably do.

But if your looking at forging why aren't you using coal ? Not only will you get the heat it'll carburise your steel while your at it.

How much is the rent on different bottle sizes nowdays ? The oxy is by far one of the handiest tools one can have...

Originally Posted by damian

Gee, I've wandered into the nanny state.

In the old days, when I was young, welders didn't buy acetylene in tanks like you do now, you made your own. I've got plans for an acetylene generator if anyone wants a copy.

Pure oxygen is a bit more tricky as you have to cool air to about 70 kelvin and as mentioned distill it off. If your just building a forge then air will probably do.

But if your looking at forging why aren't you using coal ? Not only will you get the heat it'll carburise your steel while your at it.

How much is the rent on different bottle sizes nowdays ? The oxy is by far one of the handiest tools one can have...

I had the firies and Mines and Energy close the Gateway MWay on me one Friday PM because of a damaged acetylene cylinder from a prang. Apparently they don't like being compromised.....making it at home doesn't sound particularly safe - Nanny State or not, I reckon my insurers would wipe me if I had a little acetylene incident in the shed....I'd probably be dead so it would only of the missus.

Bottle rent......@ $130 from BOC for an E size. Not a big difference in bottle size costs though from what I understand. I just use the E cause I can transport it across the seat of the cruiser.

Acetylene generators make it as you need it. They are safer than tanks.

If you've ever seen an acetlyene tank go off you'd be glad you were kept well away from it.

Your insurance company will wipe you anyway. Read your policy. If you have 20 liters of petrol in a jerry can and they can claim that caused any damage in a fire your toast. Most policies allow 5 liters of petrol and very little other flammable liquid. I think the 9 kg lpg tanks are it for "gasses". Anything more than "normal" domestic supplies and they can drop you like a stone.

Can't win, don't try