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Thread: Ressurecting old files.
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8th Jun 2006, 05:25 PM #1
Ressurecting old files.
Someone asked (Scooter?) so here we go.
I picked up 35 old files this week for the grand sum of about $20, to my door. I bought them as a means of aquiring some good steel that I can make into other tools with a little bashing and heating.
Problem is that over half of them are still in good condition, if a little rusty. Not entirely happy with this, as it means I should restore them into useable tools again. Add in the fact that there are over 30 files in the same size and cut, well, it is possible to have too much of a good thing...
A few pics to accompany of course.
First pic, a token file as I got them. Nothing special or unusual, other than it's rusty, full of crud and still has lots of life left.
Second pic, a dud. Not sure how well it looks, but there is a large section where the teeth have been sheared off, leaving a smooth section. As this is one of the 30, it's going to be cleaned up and then made into something else.
Third pic, after de-rusting.
Fourth, after sharpening.
Ok, take your file and check it over. Make sure that all the teeth (or most of them) appear to be there and in good condition. No big swathes of missing teeth.
If it's got lots of 'pinning' (lots of bits of metal stuck in the teeth), get rid of it with a file card. Don't go overboard here, just remove as much as is easy to get out.
Now, get a large drink bottle (I use 2 litre square ones) and chop the top off. Put the file in
standing up, and make sure all the teeth are below the top of the bottle. Fill the bottle with vinegar. Cheaper the better here.
Leave the file in there for at least a few hours, I leave them for a couple days. You could also use electrolysis, but I think vinegar is the best option.
Take the now de-rusted file out, rinse it with clean water and scrub it with a brass wire brush. Scrub with the direction of the teeth, and get all the black/red crud out. Rinse again. The file will go a gold colour, this is due to rust forming on very clean steel. You can't stop it, and there's no trouble from it either. Make sure any pinning you missed earlier is removed now with a sharp scriber or similar. Cheack the file over, make sure there are no surprises.
If you wish, you can stop here. The file will be quite sharp and will work quite well. It can be taken further though...
Have another big bottle with it's top cut off. half fill it with water, then add some citric acid. I use a 10:1 ratio of water to citric acid powder, so I put in 200g. Top up with water, then put the file in there for a day or three.
Take the file out, rinse and scrub it with the brass brush again. Squirt it with some good rust inhibiting oil while it's still wet, and rub the oil into the teeth with a toothbrush or old paintbrush. Wrap the file in some old newspaper, and put it aside until you want to use it.
Dead simple, safe (neither acid is too nasty, but wear gloves and glasses anyway) and you will learn what a beautiful thing a really sharp file is.
To a point, I can't recall a new file being as sharp as these things end up being...
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8th Jun 2006, 05:30 PM #2
I can't seem to get the fourth file to attach/upload.
Will try again later when I have time.
Ok, tried about 5 times now and it keeps telling me that the file is already attached.
^%$^%$^% hunk of snot...
Anyways, the files look a little sharper in pic 4 than pic 3. That will have to do for now...
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8th Jun 2006, 05:43 PM #3
Now as a guy who inherited 60 rusty files from his Dad, this is a really useful post. Many thanks Schtoo.
Off to Woolies for the vinegar (aka epoxy cleanup agent)
JeremyCheers
Jeremy
If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly
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8th Jun 2006, 11:19 PM #4
Onya Schtoo, will be easier to find when I need to search it out now...
Cheers..................Sean, circular file
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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8th Jun 2006, 11:26 PM #5
Useful post Schtoo, I'm not allowed to give you a greenie yet though
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8th Jun 2006, 11:58 PM #6Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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Originally Posted by Groggy
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9th Jun 2006, 06:39 AM #7
Yeh, it is a useful post.
I've said before....but I use battery acid. Far more corrosive. but I thought that was good, because it seems to eat away at the sides of the serrations better, which sharpens them up.
Have you tried that yet Schtoo ? ....I'd like to know which is better. I'll try vinigar myself next time I get some more old files.
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9th Jun 2006, 11:35 AM #8
Nope, never tried suphuric acid, and don't plan to.
The vinegar works to de-rust the files very well, and does a good job of sharpening them. Just takes more time. Heaps safer and cheaper too.
I'd be worried about using sulphuric acid on a file with very fine teeth though, might become a knife blank lickety split. I threw a mill file in there the other day, and it came out sharper than new. Bloody thing was a pain to use till I packed the teeth with some chalk.
I don't know for sure, but some acids will eat the steel in different ways. Some do it quickly, some slowly and it doesn't have anything to do with how strong the acid is. Just a chemical reaction kinda thing. I'd like to know which acids eat the steel faster, so it might be possible to use a 'safe' acid that works fast. I do know that citric, acetic (vinegar), sulphuric and hydrochloric acids all work an steel pretty well. I'd like to get some hydrochloric acid, but I can't find it here.
I'm going to stick to this method anyways. It works, and it's not like I need them in a hurry. Problem is, I have to at least de-rsut all of them, because I can't make them into new tools with all the crud on them right now.
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11th Jun 2006, 09:06 AM #9
Not trying to kill your idea Schtoo. I must try vinegar. but...
The vinegar works to de-rust the files very well, and does a good job of sharpening them. Just takes more time. Heaps safer and cheaper too.
Battery acid would be cheaper. From old car batteries. Nobody wants them. Pick them up off the side of the road.
Agree, no fumes with vinegar, but that an't a problem if you do it in the open air.
I'd be worried about using sulphuric acid on a file with very fine teeth though, might become a knife blank lickety split. I threw a mill file in there the other day, and it came out sharper than new. Bloody thing was a pain to use till I packed the teeth with some chalk.
Good point on leaving it too long. I did that once and yes, it came out with little left of the serations. But again thats not a problem if you check it often.
I don't know for sure, but some acids will eat the steel in different ways. Some do it quickly, some slowly and it doesn't have anything to do with how strong the acid is. Just a chemical reaction kinda thing. I'd like to know which acids eat the steel faster, so it might be possible to use a 'safe' acid that works fast. I do know that citric, acetic (vinegar), sulphuric and hydrochloric acids all work an steel pretty well. I'd like to get some hydrochloric acid, but I can't find it here.
I agree there's something in that. Different rates. Some would be ready in as little as a couple of hours. Some overnight. I couldn't tell you. In general, I'd say the battery acid would be much faster. So its really just a time thing by the sound of it... I could be wrong.
I'm going to stick to this method anyways. It works, and it's not like I need them in a hurry. Problem is, I have to at least de-rsut all of them, because I can't make them into new tools with all the crud on them right now
If it works, I'd stick with it too. Vinegar sounds like a good method. I'll give vinegar a go next time and make a comparison.
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30th Dec 2006, 10:48 PM #10
After reading this and a previous post I promised to look up an old book about sharpening files.
It recomends cleaning and degreasing the file first using various methods.
But a caustic soda bath figures in the text as a solution to several problems.
It then recomends starpening by immersing in a 10 -20 percent solution of nitric acid in water. It recomends inspecting the files from time to time with the aid of a magnafying glass till the tips are seen to be sharp.
Then wiping the acid off the tips of the teeth with a stretched cloth and allowing the acid to continue acting in the groves "for a time".
the acid should then be neutralised by ommersing in washing soda then washing well in hot water and drying.
A " better solution" is aparantly a mixture of 1 volume of sulphuric acid, 1.5 volumes of nitric acid and 8 volumes of water
The files are placed verticaly in the container.
So there you go
From caxtons engineering workshop data 1959.
If there is further interest I'll coppy the whole text sometime.
cheersAny thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
Most powertools have sharp teeth.
People are made of meat.
Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.
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31st Dec 2006, 12:22 AM #11
I inherited a heap from grandpa too. Been wondering the best way to clean them up. Thanks. Is there a difference between the steel used in wood files and engineering files?
If you never made a mistake, you never made anything!
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31st Dec 2006, 08:39 AM #12
Ta Soundman.
Like the idea of wiping the tips of the serrations. Confirms how I pictured the process working.
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31st Dec 2006, 10:33 PM #13
Definitely interested in the text, Soundy, seems to be some good stuff in there
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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31st Dec 2006, 11:20 PM #14
Looks like I'll have to put on my stenographers hat.
cheersAny thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
Most powertools have sharp teeth.
People are made of meat.
Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.
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4th Jan 2007, 10:22 PM #15Apprentice
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It Works
Thank a lot for this Posting, It works great
Regards,