Thread: Old lathe clean up Newbie

As to whether to go metric or freedom units on you measurement tools… get whatever the lathe is graduated in. It will mess with your head less only having to convert numbers once at the start. Using metric measurements on a machine with freedoms on the hand wheels (and vice versa) is just painful. The only exception is your dial indicator, as already mentioned, for clocking a 4jaw you mostly don’t care about units or how many of them, you’re just looking to match them in every direction.
If you’re buying Mitutoyo or Starret, don’t buy off evilBay, the stuff there is generally list well above what you can buy new from somewhere like General Tools.

On the topic of measurement - this is a very good video, which coincidentally, youtube put across my path just today as a suggestion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMKLZEgh_SU

There's some very well explained techniques in the video and it doesn't requite exotic and expensive tools either.

I have a half round clamp similar to Stefan's - it doesn't grip the dovetail on the test indicator in exactly the same way, however it does have facility to grip the dovetail on the test indicator which I am finding incredibly useful for positioning.

Thanks for all the input and "adult products" comment from Jekyll and Hyde cracked me up My initial reason for the lathe outside of "I have always wanted one" is I shoot and run a form of pistol shooting known as IPSC, think running around an obstacle course with windows and doors etc with static and dynamic targets. Started making more of my own moving targets and being able to turn sleaves for pivot points and bearing holders etc will take my targets to another level. Throw in some small pistol accessories (not considered gunsmithing, takes too much to have a H class licence I wouldn't risk it) and that's my current lathe plan. But now I realise there may be a whole new market that I hadn't considered . Will go and troll the net now for some basic measuring tools, lathe dials are metric so will stick with what I know.

Thanks guys.

Chester

Well finally the rain has stopped in QLD so grabbed the opportunity and started on the new lathe bench, got it all tack welded by lunch, then had the doh moment. When I drew up the plan it was drawn with 65mm square section but managed to score some 75mmx4mm free for the legs. Because I offset the cross members in the 75mm I grew the length of the bench a total of 12mm so had to grind the tack welds back, trim the steel and go again. (The I beam sits inside the frame so couldn't leave it) Got most of it welded up and a few hours tomorrow will see the last few welds and the basic bench will be done. Still need to figure out how I am going to finish off the shelves or draws and wondering if it is better to close it in to avoid chips from getting through everything??????? Oh and the front crossmember is dropped down to give better hand clearance when your turning the carriage wheel, saw this on another bench build thread and thought it was a good idea.
New bench 1.jpg
The bucket washer came out great, fits in the cylinder perfectly. Will punch the hole and assemble the grease gun then put a small amount of oil in the chamber to season the washer before I put diesel or kero through to clean the lathe. Hopefully it will seal properly and work as has been suggested.
washer 1.jpg

I know you have welded it up so this may not work. I made a mill bench a while ago and sized it to fit a set of metal drawers. Another idea is with the end that is below the head. If you close it inside the frame you can mount the change gears and suitable spanner in the cavity if your lathe takes change gears. If not the face plate and steady's would live nicely there.

More progress on the bench today, finished welding and then repurposed some draws out of an old cupboard. Need to add a shelf, doors and give it a coat of paint. Glad I purchased the engine crane as this bench is getting hefty . new bench 2.jpg

A few different ways of attaching collets to the lathe, I see a lot of collet face plates but what about this style that just fits in your 3 jaw????
collet chuck 1.jpg The Joe collet block seems like a simple system, is there any major drawbacks to using this style ? comes in er32 or er40 capable, is one better than the other? Collet sets in er32 or er40 (same specs) are about the same price.

Many thanks

Chester

3 jaw chucks inherently have some runout. Using a collet chuck in a 3 jaw defeats half the point of using it in the first place (extra accuracy).

The Joe block is excellent for milling. Although mine doesn't seem that hard, so the teeth on a 3 jaw might chew it up over time.

ER40 goes bigger. 26mm instead of 20mm in standard sizes, and you can get oversize ER40 collets up to 32mm. I use my oversize collets about half the time I use the thing.

The ultimate setup is an ER40 with set true adjustment, so you can even dial out any collet runout if desired. Like this: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/352328461653

Don't think anyone in Australia sells them though. I made my own set true ER40 out of part of a Land Rover transfer case, as getting one in D1-5 was eye wateringly expensive. Depending on the thread of your backplate, you might have to machine a blank backplate to fit your lathe anyway...

Check your spindle nose taper, mine's MT4.5 which is a PITA to find anything for, your machine looks very similar.

My spindle nose taper has less than 1 micron of runout - I had to check the test indicator was in proper contact.

I do have plans to fit one of these with a draw tube instead of a drawbar, things to do before that comes to fruition though.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/305364777889

That said, watching people on youtube with 5C collet chucks has me envious...

https://www.mag-pro.com.au/index/ind...ls/id/400.html
https://www.mag-pro.com.au/index/ind...ls/id/270.html

I have never heard of an MT4.5 before. I never knew such a thing existed.

I have given 5C a few thoughts over the years (mainly after watching American Y'tubers talking about them) but realized we need a fairly large set to cover a wide range of sizes (0.5mm increments).

The 5C collet stops and quick release ejector technology is something ER collets lack. And then there are other pros/cons of either collet type which I will avoid talking about here.

Those options from M&G are definitely tempting. However tool shops such GT in Adelaide do not even want to stock them (why?).

So if someone had a full set of 5C collets (covering every size they will ever need) then I can see that as a valid argument to prefer 5C over ER.

But if someone was starting today then ER is probably a logical choice and widely available from budget to high quality.

However, if I get a chance to buy a motherload of 5C collets, I will grab them first. The 5C collect chucks for most lathes and 5C collet blocks are abundant online for very little money compared to a proper branded set of 5C collets.

MT4.5 is actually good given that the bore through the spindle on my machine is ~35.5mm, but unlike the full integer MT taper accessories there isn't off the shelf tools available unfortunately.

I've since learned that some Colchester lathes had 4.5 also and there is also stub taper MT5 which is the back end of MT5 taper as potential spindle nose tapers.

ER collets look to be more versatile as they have a clamping range as we seem to have a metrimperial system on some material, so many imperial bar, tube and pipe sizes....

From what I understand 5C collets are nominal size and +-0.001" or thereabouts.
That would make that 33 piece set from M&G about half of a full set if all potential sizes are to be covered

Thanks Gents, some more thinking and research to be done on that one. The lathe spec sheet is as below.
Manual spec sheet.jpg
So a 4 not a 4.5 what that means for me and to whether that is an advantage or disadvantage well is to be discovered
The input everyone offers me sends me on a journey of late night googling and researching and is greatly appreciated, the rabbit hole is deep on this one. Definitely one of the friendliest and most helpful forums that I have been involved with so thank you to everyone.

Chester

MT4 potentially means that you could get an ER32 or ER40 -> MT4 adaptor and have it go straight into the spindle nose taper for a collet chuck.

Is yours the 12"x36"?

I like the belt drive, it's very quiet, mine has just a hum that is less noisy than a washing machine.

SW-900 search yields Shenwai SW-900 model and these hits

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...wai-900.98326/
https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g9249_m.pdf

The grizzly manual although for a more recent useful model lathe may be useful in some respects as it's not a gear head lathe, similar to yours, using belts to change between spindle speeds - it's also got a gem in there which I would have found useful, the spindle -> chuck attachment, seems to be the same as mine 2 1/4" 8TPI

This page is useful as it looks to be the same or at least very similar to both the AL900A and the Grizzly DG1237G lathes in many respects
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre....70393/page-22

A search for Grizzly DF1237G lathe throws up this hit
https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/fo...-grizzly-lathe
The Grizzly manual
https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g1003_m.pdf

There is a lot of crossover and commonality in many of the Taiwanese lathes, not everything is always the same, but it can help if you're after specs - the Grizzly G1003 manual which I just skim read is the first I have seen that gives specs for the spindle bearing pre-load for example

Originally Posted by ruckusman

MT4 potentially means that you could get an ER32 or ER40 -> MT4 adaptor and have it go straight into the spindle nose taper for a collet chuck.

Is yours the 12"x36"?

I like the belt drive, it's very quiet, mine has just a hum that is less noisy than a washing machine.

SW-900 search yields Shenwai SW-900 model and these hits

There is a lot of crossover and commonality in many of the Taiwanese lathes, not everything is always the same, but it can help if you're after specs - the Grizzly G1003 manual which I just skim read is the first I have seen that gives specs for the spindle bearing pre-load for example

Hey ruckusman, thanks so much for the info. Mine is the Shenwai-350 so 10"x32" I have managed to find a few manuals online, Lam / jet / Grizzly and lucky to have the original owner's manual all be it quite small. But the combination of them all gives a pretty extensive guide to the lathe.

When you say could go straight into the spindle nose, does this mean remove the 3 jaw chuck and the taper will insert into the hole same as putting a new MT2 drill chuck into a pedestal drill?

I went to the lathes UK site and went through his thread on the Taiwanese lathes and did a search on all the different (but the same) lathes shown and was able to download a great deal of information. Surprising how many rebadges of the same lathe, still not entirely sure but from what I have read I believe that Shenwai is the actual manufacturer.

Originally Posted by getshafted400

Hey ruckusman, thanks so much for the info. Mine is the Shenwai-350 so 10"x32" I have managed to find a few manuals online, Lam / jet / Grizzly and lucky to have the original owner's manual all be it quite small. But the combination of them all gives a pretty extensive guide to the lathe.

Yeah cobbling together a mosaic of information from manuals of similar machines is the way to go - I have the manual for mine, to say it's light on is an understatement...

Originally Posted by getshafted400

When you say could go straight into the spindle nose, does this mean remove the 3 jaw chuck and the taper will insert into the hole same as putting a new MT2 drill chuck into a pedestal drill?

Have a look at the spindle nose pics on this page - https://g3ynh.info/workshop/tida_td5.html

So with the chuck removed you should have a taper, which if yours is MT4 will take an ER32/ER40 adapter precisely like a into the pedestal drill quill.

For example
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/204517858471
ER40-MT4.jpg

16mm drawbar from threaded bar through the spindle and that's an ER collet chuck IMO - if you wanted to get fancy, machine a thread on the outer of the MT4 adapter and make a draw tube which would allow longer ~14mm material into the spindle

Bonus may be, if your spindle nose is in good condition it may also have little to no runout also - I actually wonder if they did the final machining of the nose taper in situ with spindle in the actual machine for accuracy

Originally Posted by getshafted400

I went to the lathes UK site and went through his thread on the Taiwanese lathes and did a search on all the different (but the same) lathes shown and was able to download a great deal of information. Surprising how many rebadges of the same lathe, still not entirely sure but from what I have read I believe that Shenwai is the actual manufacturer.

That's a great site that one