Thread: Which drill bits these days? Things seem to have changed. Still Dormer?

I have a set of Sutton Vipers in metric, which are reasonable, but the Imperial set is Frost (HSS), and they are rubbish steel that rusts easily and the flutes are very steep (but variable). I have been considering replacing them both for use in the shed, and just keeping the current ones as "travellers" in my toolbag.

From what I have read, Dormer used to be regarded as the go-to brand for quality (and their 0.1mm increments), but it seems that they are now producing them in Brazil. Has this had a detrimental effect on their quality?

I have a very complete set of Colt Brad points for wood drilling, so the point type for normal twist bits can be whatever is best for steel (even though most of their use will be in wood where a Brad point is not appropriate). Bear in mind though that I don't do a great deal of steel drilling (as noted in t'other thread).

Would it be a safer move to bite the bullet and purchase a Cobalt set, and be covered for more eventualities, or is Cobalt more for Stainless Steel?

Where do you buy your drill bits?

What are Alcock bits like? This set looks pretty interesting. Hard to determine where they are made, which usually pans out to be about 8 hours flight due north of Perth....

Is this an extraordinary buy for Guhring drills, or am I missing something? They also have an Imperial set (29) reduced similarly. Note that they are HSS, not M2.

We have a combination of Sutton and Guhring drills at work (also some fancy Walter-Titex parabolic flute, but that's probably a bit overkill for you), can't really go wrong with any of them. Back when I was making furniture, we got a set of the house brand Total Tools HSS drills and they did alright; we ground our own brad points in-house so we just got whatever wasn't super expensive.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

What are Alcock bits like? This set looks pretty interesting. Hard to determine where they are made, which usually pans out to be about 8 hours flight due north of Perth....

Is this an extraordinary buy for Guhring drills, or am I missing something? They also have an Imperial set (29) reduced similarly. Note that they are HSS, not M2.

M2 is specific brew of HSS - sometimes these terms are used interchangeably.

The problem with anything these days is you never really know where thinks are made.

My 13 - 25 mm (in 1mm increments) MT2/3 set comes from CTC tools in Hong Kong.
The 13.5 - 24.5s in 1mm increment bits are a mix of Alcocks and CTC bits.
I don't see any performance difference between them or the 50+ year P&Ns from work that I have borrowed from time to time
I also have two sets of reduced shank bits in the 13 -25 mm range that I bought for wood but these days I tend to use (cheap) Forstner bit although the Forstners dont cover as many sizes.
When used in steel the Alcock Imperials are a bit ordinary whereas the reduced shank 13 - 25 mm from CTC tools bits are fine.

I have many other sets of bits, two sets of 50+ year old 1/16 -0 1/2 P&Ns imperials that I have replaced about 30% of over the years. Two chinese metric sets from Mcjing, 1 to 6 mm and and 6 to 10 mm in 0.1mm increments every time I break one I usually replace it with something like a Bunnings Cobalt Sutton if the size is available. Occasionally I goto speciality tool store or shop on line for the odd sizes are not available at Bunnings. Honestly I dont see lot of difference between them in mild steel. Before I start a project I tend to touch up the sizes I'm using whether they need it or not.

The only time I noticed the difference between bits is when drilling really hard material like Bisalloy plate or the hardened bearing centre of a ahcinsaw bar. In Bisalloy plate a cheap bit will do a few holes and decent/cobalt bit will do a few more before needing to be touched up.

Thanks for your responses chaps.

Originally Posted by BobL

M2 is specific brew of HSS - sometimes these terms are used interchangeably.

Yes, understood, I was a little brief.

Forum sponsor Smith & Arrow have M35 sets for a pretty good price (must be made north of Perth too).

CTC Tools have a very good 100 piece set of M35 drills (currently out of stock with no price displayed – but I'd say about USD140-150 given that the black M2 set is USD104). Increments of 0.1mm up to 9.9mm would obviate needing Imperials below 10mm, and I'll have to compare the other sizes to Imperials.
BTW that plastic rotating stand which they sell for $4 is sold here for $30...

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

CTC Tools have a very good 100 piece set of M35 drills (currently out of stock with no price displayed – but I'd say about USD140-150 given that the black M2 set is USD104). Increments of 0.1mm up to 9.9mm would obviate needing Imperials below 10mm, . .. .

It depends on what tolerances you are prepared to work with.
Some imperials will give you access to 0.05mm differences to X.1 mm metrics - eg 1/4" is 6.35 mm so half way between 6.3 and 6.4

Here is an interesting table of recommended drill sizes for engineers from Tubal Cains, Drill taps and Dies.
I haven't seen some of these sizes available for a long time.
Note the step sizes recommended/preferred

Screen Shot 2022-07-13 at 6.49.42 pm.png

Originally Posted by BobL

It depends on what tolerances you are prepared to work with.

True, and I thought about that – I'll still have the crappy Frost drills to fall back on if I really need to get closer than 0.05mm tolerance (and I can always buy a Sutton locally...if they have stock). In timber I very much doubt that 0.05mm will make any difference at all.

I'd only have to add 6 drills over 10mm to that set to get the full Imperial coverage. O'course, they are the most expensive individual drills.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

True, and I thought about that – I'll still have the crappy Frost drills to fall back on if I really need to get closer than 0.05mm tolerance (and I can always buy a Sutton locally...if they have stock). In timber I very much doubt that 0.05mm will make any difference at all.

Yep.

I'd only have to add 6 drills over 10mm to that set to get the full Imperial coverage. O'course, they are the most expensive individual drills.

What do you mean by full imperial coverage, do you mean up to 12.7mm?

Originally Posted by BobL

What do you mean by full imperial coverage, do you mean up to 12.7mm?

Yes.

Hi FF

I don't drill a real lot of steel at home but I have a 1/2" set of Suttons (not viper) which I keep specifically next to the drill press for steel and other metals. I have found them quite good without breaking the budget plus they were made in Australia. Not sure where they come from now - possibly from 8 hours north of Perth. As each drill needed sharpening I have reground the angle back to 134 rather than the standard 118 degrees. I also have a mish mash collection of older inherited Dormer, P&N and other brands which seem to be comparable quality to the Suttons.

I think Sutton may be phasing out their Cobalt range and replacing it with an Inox range in hardware stores. The BGS had the Cobalt sets reduced a couple of months ago, I couldn't help myself and bought a 1/2" set (even though I don't drill enough stainless to justify buying them). Some stores may still have some of the Cobalt stock left.

Just as an aside, on the farm where I do some casual work they have a couple of sets of made in China Frosts. I have found that while not as good in terms of life of cutting edge as my Sutton set, if you keep touching up the edge before it gets blunt they are quite usable. The Frosts have a hard life as everything we drill there is steel and we can't always use a drill press. Quite a few (okay, lots) get broken when using a cordless drill and it is easier (and cheaper) to buy a new set than replace individual bits.

Just my experiences and hope this helps.

Regards
Twosheds

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Thanks for your responses chaps.


CTC Tools have a very good 100 piece set of M35 drills (currently out of stock with no price displayed – but I'd say about USD140-150 given that the black M2 set is USD104). Increments of 0.1mm up to 9.9mm

Postage is nearly $90 so that makes CTC very expensive...

My local steel place stocks Bordo.

I have used their taps and drill bits and I think they are pretty good.

Simon

Sent from a galaxy far far away

Originally Posted by matthew_g

Postage is nearly $90 so that makes CTC very expensive...

You can ask them to review the postage, and they weigh it in a couple of bundles to see what works out. I wasn't able to get that shown in the cart, but I'll send them an email about that and another question. (but yes, $90 for postage is ridiculous)

I have a number of Sutton drill bits. They are hard and sharp, but the tips wobble. The bits seem to have slight curves in them - at least in many of mine.

I usually buy Dormer jobber and stub bits. They work just fine in my CNC.

Cheers
Roger

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

CTC Tools have a very good 100 piece set of M35 drills (currently out of stock with no price displayed – but I'd say about USD140-150 given that the black M2 set is USD104).

Cough! Wrong, by a significant margin. That 100 pce M35 set is USD562. The 100 pce TiNi coated HSS M2 is USD235, but 118° (where the M35 is 135°).

What are the opinions of TiNi coating? It seems to me that the coating at the business end may not last so long, and therefore be a waste of time. Certainly after one sharpening the TiNi is gone at the cutting edge.