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  1. #1
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    Jul 2008
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    Default Chipmaster cleanup

    Been cleaning up the 1963 Chipmaster lathe. 60 years of neglect and dirt / crud . Disassembled the headstock - not many parts in it. Complicated front spindle bearing which costs a fortune to replace . A ring of small springs on the rear spindle bearing provides the bearings preload . Evidence of badly leaking O rings and oil seals . Spindle bearings are oiled by a tubular trough high up in the headstock that has tiny holes each end that drip oil onto each spindle bearing - often the holes are clogged with crud . I hope it all goes back together OK !!! There is a Chipmaster Facebook group for anyone neediing assistance . The QCGB assembly is very easy to remove , a 5 minute job. Hex socket head screws are used throughout , these are all UN standard threads which is nice ! Little evidence of wear on everything , the bed is in good shape.
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  2. #2
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    Oct 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    Been cleaning up the 1963 Chipmaster lathe. 60 years of neglect and dirt / crud . Disassembled the headstock - not many parts in it. Complicated front spindle bearing which costs a fortune to replace . A ring of small springs on the rear spindle bearing provides the bearings preload . Evidence of badly leaking O rings and oil seals . Spindle bearings are oiled by a tubular trough high up in the headstock that has tiny holes each end that drip oil onto each spindle bearing - often the holes are clogged with crud . I hope it all goes back together OK !!! There is a Chipmaster Facebook group for anyone neediing assistance . The QCGB assembly is very easy to remove , a 5 minute job. Hex socket head screws are used throughout , these are all UN standard threads which is nice ! Little evidence of wear on everything , the bed is in good shape.
    The Chipmaster was a seriously good lathe Simon, right up there with the likes of lathes like the Monarch 10EE. The Kopp Variator drive could be an issue, but these days it is easily removed and a larger three phase motor with a VFD controller replacement unit fitted. A pretty good write up on the lathes.co.uk site, which I'm sure you have already read, has lots of useful info. A fellow forum member, PDW, Peter thinks very highly of his, and I'm sure would be happy to advise on any issues you find with yours. I hope that your Gammet spindle bearings are still ok, if not then a long search on international ebay sites would be justified as I have heard that prices for new sets are eye watering, but have never heard the price. Good luck with it all, I look forward to seeing your progress unfold over the coming weeks and months. As a side note, there was a pristine one in Melbourne for sale about two years ago for about $5k. I was very tempted, but had no room for it at the time. I did hear it running though, and it was like brand new. That lathe and a small but similar quality milling machine had been owned by an obviously well heeled gentleman who had bought both machines new and used them as hobbyist tools making models I was told, and just by looking at those two machines with totally unblemished slideways, original paint and a complete lack of rust on any parts, I had no reason to doubt what I was told.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
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    34
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    1,075

    Default

    Definitely a solid machine. We have a 1963 Bantam (which I assume is a cousin of the Chipmaster, the carriage and tailstock are the same) that will still run 1600 rpm for 8 hours a day.
    Gear cutting specialists and general engineers www.hardmanbros.com.au
    Fine pitch gear cutting from 0.1 Module www.rigear.com.au

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
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    71
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elanjacobs View Post
    Definitely a solid machine. We have a 1963 Bantam (which I assume is a cousin of the Chipmaster, the carriage and tailstock are the same) that will still run 1600 rpm for 8 hours a day.
    The Chipmaster was the toolroom version. Deeper stiffer bed, variable speed, slightly bigger spindle bore. The carriage, cross slide, tailstock etc were the same.

    The Kopp variator is a weak link and no, IMO you can't swap out for a VFD unless you get one that has a 10:1 effective speed/torque range because that's what the Kopp variator has. I've looked into this a couple times and never found anything I was happy with. Of course technology changes and now maybe there is a way.

    I've stripped my variator down and cleaned it, new oil etc. It works quite acceptably. I need to replace the V belts and lower pulley one of these days.

    Not in the 10EE category IMO but one rung down. Very nice lathes to use, I find the ergonomics really good, better than my Emco Maximat 11.

    I've had mine for over 20 years and I won't be parting with it. Got a DRO kit to fit but figuring out a good way to do the cross slide has escaped me so far. And I've a ton of other projects so - one of these days...

    PDW

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    505

    Default

    Another one here putting together the headstock of a Chipmaster, and slowly making some notes about procedure before I start fitting new(!) spindle bearings, so approaching this with great care.

    I have a number of Chipmaster parts lists and user manuals in .pdf form, and happy to share these if you PM me your email addresss. I would put them here but not sure that 20Mb for the collection would be welcome. I have earlier and later versions of Chipmaster user and parts manuals: those for earlier machines show the spindle front bearing nut secured with a tab washer, and for later machines without tab washers but grub screws through the nut, and brass pads to protect the thread on the spindle.

    Also have a manual for a later version that was marketed in the USA as Harrison 10-AA lathes. This manual may have been written a bit later than the last Chipmaster versions, and is similar but seems a bit better. Apparently Colchester were trying hard to get into the USA market at a time when there was a shortage of locally made high quality small lathes, and the likes of Hardinge could not quickly increase production to meet demand.

    One thing I cannot find is info on the correct method of preloading the double row tapered front spindle bearing. Fortunately for me (if you can put it that way) new Chipmaster front spindle bearing (Gamet HE type) comes with a calibrated spacer ring between the two inner bearing races, so the preload is set when the inner races are clamped against the ring. My Chippie as purchased had no calibrated spacer in that bearing, so either it was never there, or someone took it out because the bearings were a rattlin' good fit with it in. Why new bearings? Let's just say that's what can happen if you can't run the machine before purchase. Fortunately it does not always happen, but not fun when it does.

    Cheers,
    Bill

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    505

    Default

    Another one here putting together the headstock of a Chipmaster, and slowly making some notes about procedure before I start fitting new(!) spindle bearings, so approaching this with great care.

    I have a number of Chipmaster parts lists and user manuals in .pdf form, and happy to share these if you PM me your email addresss. I would put them here but not sure that 20Mb for the collection would be welcome. I have earlier and later versions of Chipmaster user and parts manuals: those for earlier machines show the spindle front bearing nut secured with a tab washer, and for later machines without tab washers but grub screws through the nut, and brass pads to protect the thread on the spindle.

    Also have a manual for a later version that was marketed in the USA as Harrison 10-AA lathes. This manual may have been written a bit later than the last Chipmaster versions, and is similar but seems a bit better. Apparently Colchester were trying hard to get into the USA market at a time when there was a shortage of locally made high quality small lathes, and the likes of Hardinge could not quickly increase production to meet demand.

    One thing I cannot find is info on the correct method of preloading the double row tapered front spindle bearing. Fortunately for me (if you can put it that way) new Chipmaster front spindle bearings (Gamet HE type) come with a calibrated spacer ring between the two inner bearing races, so the preload is set when the inner races are clamped against the ring. My Chippie as purchased had no calibrated spacer in that bearing, so either it was never there, or someone took it out because the bearings were a rattlin' good fit with it in. Why new bearings? Let's just say that's what can happen if you can't run the machine before purchase. Fortunately it does not always happen, but not fun when it does.

    Cheers,
    Bill

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    near Warragul, Victoria
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    Default tab

    Quote Originally Posted by WCD View Post
    those for earlier machines show the spindle front bearing nut secured with a tab washer, and for later machines without tab washers but grub screws through the nut, and brass pads to protect the thread on the spindle.

    Cheers,
    Bill
    Yes this example I have has the early locking tab style washer. Reading reports from other owners, older Chipmasters do have an issue in the form of badly leaky headstocks , there are about ten O rings and a 1 5/8" X 2 3/16" x 3/8" main oil seal on the input shaft , the oil seal is a fiddly job to get to but once done you know the proceedure. If that seal leaks the headstock oil migrates into the ball bearing which is inside the clutch/input pulley, the ball bearing is packed with grease and eventually the oil dilutes the grease and gets to the clutch mechanism. I am not game enough to fiddle with the headstock bearings, a good wash out will suffice for my hobby use. I am in need of some 5/8" O rings for the two control shafts, 2 per shaft , maybe 16mm O rings would be OK. I have seen Chipmasters for sale here in Aust. occasionally, Lathes UK reckons they were in production from 1957 to the early 1980s.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WCD View Post
    Why new bearings? Let's just say that's what can happen if you can't run the machine before purchase. Fortunately it does not always happen, but not fun when it does.
    I once inspected a Chipmaster that seemed in reasonably decent condition. The owner wouldn't put it under power for me even though 3 phase was available in the warehouse shed and I offered to do the temp lead connection.

    Because of this I offered him $1500 less than his asking price and explained why I was concerned about the bearings.

    He still declined to run the machine or accept the offer so I passed on it. Later the machine went to local auction, I was high bidder at less than $1000 but he'd placed a reserve so I didn't get the machine then either.

    At which point I lost interest as I didn't need it anyway and it was all too much hassle.

    PDW

  9. #9
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    Default XLS2 bearing

    I just discovered the ball bearing inside the toothed input pulley is stuffed , it is a XLS2 bearing with a OD of 3 and 3/16" ID of 2" and width of 5/8"

    Had a look online and the bearing was made by either Hoffman and FAG years ago , doesn't seem to be a modern equivalent available.

    Funny thing is a local guy I knew here worked at Hoffman bearings in the UK during the 1960s.. he said they would not modernize their production methods and they got left behind and eventually closed.

  10. #10
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    Oct 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    I just discovered the ball bearing inside the toothed input pulley is stuffed , it is a XLS2 bearing with a OD of 3 and 3/16" ID of 2" and width of 5/8"

    Had a look online and the bearing was made by either Hoffman and FAG years ago , doesn't seem to be a modern equivalent available.

    Funny thing is a local guy I knew here worked at Hoffman bearings in the UK during the 1960s.. he said they would not modernize their production methods and they got left behind and eventually closed.
    Did you find a source for replacement bearing? You listed the bearing as being2"x3 3/16"x5/8", but I am getting the same bearing number as being 2x3 5/16X5/8 in this link. Probably cheaper options out there, but I need to get some shut eye pretty soon.
    https://www.qualitybearingsonline.co...-2x3.5/16x5/8/
    With luck you will source cheaper than this and the Gamet spindle bearings are still O.K.

  11. #11
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    Default Ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Ropetangler View Post
    Did you find a source for replacement bearing? You listed the bearing as being2"x3 3/16"x5/8", but I am getting the same bearing number as being 2x3 5/16X5/8 in this link. Probably cheaper options out there, but I need to get some shut eye pretty soon.
    https://www.qualitybearingsonline.co...-2x3.5/16x5/8/
    With luck you will source cheaper than this and the Gamet spindle bearings are still O.K.

    Thanks for your help. Yes it is 5/16 not 3/16

    I have contacted a mob in the UK , will see how it goes. Edit: supplier in the UK can air mail a new bearing out 56 UK pounds.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
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    470

    Default

    These sites might help you out with the Kopp variator I have one on my Okuma lathe.

    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...images-287621/


    https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/fo...ion#post797274

  13. #13
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    Default Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine Builder View Post
    These sites might help you out with the Kopp variator I have one on my Okuma lathe.

    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...images-287621/


    https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/fo...ion#post797274
    This is your lathe.. very nice https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...repair-325859/

    Didn't know other lathes used the Kopp. I had seen the Practical machinist write up but not seen the Homeshop one, thanks. My variator looks rather dirty and uncared for, will need to pull it apart and see if it is worth saving. Somebody said the special variator oil that Kopp recommends you MUST use has a equivalent that is cheaper to buy . The variators were probably noisy even when they were new ! The theory of operation would be interesting to know.

    Years ago a friend of mine had a 1946 Dodge car with a Fluid Flywheel, basically a hydraulic coupler was between the engine and the 3 speed manual gearbox.. It had a clutch pedal like a manual car but you could put it in top gear , let the clutch out and the car would not move until you pressed the accelerator pedal. It would move off in 3rd gear no problem.

  14. #14
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    Oct 2016
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    Melbourne
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    470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    This is your lathe.. very nice https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...repair-325859/

    Didn't know other lathes used the Kopp. I had seen the Practical machinist write up but not seen the Homeshop one, thanks. My variator looks rather dirty and uncared for, will need to pull it apart and see if it is worth saving. Somebody said the special variator oil that Kopp recommends you MUST use has a equivalent that is cheaper to buy . The variators were probably noisy even when they were new ! The theory of operation would be interesting to know.

    Years ago a friend of mine had a 1946 Dodge car with a Fluid Flywheel, basically a hydraulic coupler was between the engine and the 3 speed manual gearbox.. It had a clutch pedal like a manual car but you could put it in top gear , let the clutch out and the car would not move until you pressed the accelerator pedal. It would move off in 3rd gear no problem.
    Yeah she a very nice lathe not to big and not to small I put a thread on this site as well https://metalworkforums.com/f301/t19...-repair/page-4 The variators should not be noisy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZs64EgauI As for oil your variator use Shell Morlina S2 BL 10 https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...PO5095292.html My lathe uses shell Tellus hydraulic fluid. Send all speeds UK a email and ask what type of oil to use on your variator https://www.allspeeds.co.uk/ I paid almost $300 for 20 liter drum i don't think you can get 5 liters. Would be a good idea to change the oil first.

  15. #15
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    Default Ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine Builder View Post
    Yeah she a very nice lathe not to big and not to small I put a thread on this site as well https://metalworkforums.com/f301/t19...-repair/page-4 The variators should not be noisy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZs64EgauI As for oil your variator use Shell Morlina S2 BL 10 https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...PO5095292.html My lathe uses shell Tellus hydraulic fluid. Send all speeds UK a email and ask what type of oil to use on your variator https://www.allspeeds.co.uk/ I paid almost $300 for 20 liter drum i don't think you can get 5 liters. Would be a good idea to change the oil first.
    Thanks for the links . BTW I have the same power hacksaw, your example has a faster cutting stroke than mine does. Would this be the motor RPMs ? They were made in Taiwan and sold under different brands.

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