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Thread: Need advice about my nuts.
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31st Dec 2021, 05:18 PM #1Golden Member
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Need advice about my nuts.
I just received a parcel of wheel nuts in the mail and I'm a bit sus of whether I should use them or not. They're for my 2009 Jag. Like some other pommy cars I've owned, the original nuts have a kind of shell over them that gives the chrome finish but is easily destroyed by mechanics and tyre fitters with rattle guns; I had trouble removing a wheel a little while ago due to the chrome jacket on one of the wheel nuts being deformed and spinning loosely on the nut, had to hammer a single-hex socket onto the nut to re-shape the jacket sufficiently to get the nut loose. Would be a right pain at the side of the road. I ordered a set of 20 wheel nuts on line, non-genuine chrome plated without the stupid jacket thing.
I'm after opinions on the quality of the aftermarket wheel nuts- I'm inclined to either bin them or send them back.
They're M12 x 1.5 thread. The original nuts have a minor diameter of 10.34mm, which works out to 85% thread depth according to an online calculator. The new nuts have a minor diameter of 10.6mm which I make out to be 70% thread.
The thing that made me look closely at them though is this dodgy looking thread:
wheel nut thread fault.jpg
I can't figure out what has happened here, there is a kind of double-cut in the first few turns of the thread. It's the same on all 20 nuts. How would this happen?
Another worrying difference is the way the captive washer is retained on the nut; on the originals, there's a groove in the nose of the nut and the washer is staked to engage in the groove. On the new nuts, the nose of the nut has been knurled to retain the washer- so the knurling will cut into the bores in the alloy wheels. I think this is enough to make me bin them even without the dodgy threads.
wheel nut washer crimping.jpg
The O.D. of the nose of the nut is also wrong, the originals are 18.44mm, new ones are 18.14mm at the plain section and the knurling is 18.70mm, so if I let the knurled part cut the bore of the wheel, seems to me that the original nuts will then not fit the bore. I'm unsure how important that is.
Another less worrying difference is the length of the nose, originals are 8.34, aftermarket ones 10.0mm. This would only be a concern if there was risk of them bottoming out, but the wheel flange is much thicker than this. Might even be an advantage that the nose of the nuts will be in a previously-unused part of the bore.
wheel nut lengths.jpg
So really I'm after advice on the threads- should I be concerned about the 70% vs 85% thread depth, and what the heck is going on with that double-cut thread?
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31st Dec 2021, 05:36 PM #2Most Valued Member
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I wouldnt be that concerned about the thread depth, but I hear wheels are important for cars so I wouldn't run anything I felt doubts about.
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
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31st Dec 2021, 06:10 PM #3Diamond Member
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Another option would be to fit the new wheel nuts and periodically, remove some of them randomly, or specifically, for a visual inspection.
If you don't find any degradation.....refit and carry on. If you do see a pattern of failure/damage, bin them all and try again.
Steve
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31st Dec 2021, 06:52 PM #4Golden Member
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31st Dec 2021, 08:09 PM #5Diamond Member
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From what i can tell from the pics i think the threads have been done with a fluteless tap, that's why the crest looks a bit funny, but hard to be 100% certain from the pics. 90% of the time aftermaket parts are never as good as the OEM version.
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31st Dec 2021, 08:29 PM #6Diamond Member
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31st Dec 2021, 10:41 PM #7
Hi Pete,
Have you taken one of the wheels off the car and tried the nuts on the studs and the nuts in the bore of the alloy wheels ? Actually I was of the belief that the wheel nuts for the steel and alloy wheel were a slightly different shape.
The double threading is probably due to a chipped tap when the threads were cut, which could also account for the reduced thread depth.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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1st Jan 2022, 12:11 AM #8Golden Member
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I hadn't thought of that, is there usually a bit of a lead-in on the hole when a fluteless tap is used? It's only the first three turns that have the odd appearance. I don't have a way to get a good photo inside the nut.
I might have a chance to take a wheel off and check things out tomorrow.
Happy new year to all.
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1st Jan 2022, 10:06 AM #9Most Valued Member
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I think I would be Pete. But I'd be more concerened about the grade of steel used to make them. The combination of reduced thread depth and (potentially) softer metal might be a bad one. Perhaps buy a genuine set of nuts and swap them for the old ones before sending the car to the tyre place? You shoudn't even need to jack the car if you swap the nuts one at a time. Unless you're really racking up the miles, it should be years between tyre changes.
Chris
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1st Jan 2022, 11:10 AM #10Golden Member
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Yes they really are an unknown and the few issues I have noticed make me worry they are also possibly made from the cheapest material available. Given that the knurling will ream the hole in the wheel to a diameter so much larger than the original nuts, I reckon that if I fit them once there is no going back. I'm thinking I might keep an eye out for a used original set that I can pick over for undamaged ones- there are only a couple out of the 20 on the car that are really bad. Jaguar price is, of course, ridiculous and there are too many aftermarket sellers with bits claiming to be 'genuine' but actually made in various parts of Asia. I think I need to insist any time it is in for tyres etc that they not use the rattle gun on them.
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1st Jan 2022, 11:57 AM #11
Hi Pod,
Those replacements do look a bit dodgy- probably the allure of cheap offshore manufacturing and less-than-ideal QC. Cheap knockoffs are not just restricted to the LR aftermarket, huh?
The OE stuff looks good, if the threads are fine, have you thought about polishing them up somehow? Or are they completely FUBAR'd ?
On nuts like this, I've found that the correct size 6 point impact sockets are the only way. 12 point will land you in a world of hurt.
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1st Jan 2022, 02:54 PM #12Golden Member
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yeah it's not so much the polishing up, it's the fact that the jackets come loose. I had an 'of course' moment when someone on another forum pointed out that the original nuts have a through hole and are jacketed with stainless steel to cover the hole and provide a durable finish. Much easier to manufacture with a through hole rather than blind.
I figure I'm better with wheel nuts that are difficult to get off than with ones that are not up to snuff, it's a reasonably powerful car and I do a lot of driving.
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1st Jan 2022, 08:52 PM #13
HI Pete,
Just a daft idea, would it be feasible to remove the stainless jacket and polish the nuts, maybe have them Nickle plated. A plastic plug could be bought or made to fill the end of the through hole.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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1st Jan 2022, 11:04 PM #14Most Valued Member
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Pete, you know the proper solution is to buy some stainless bar and make them yourself….
Steve
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