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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
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    194

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    Thanks Grahame, that is great info.
    Just looking at the two links you attached, I think I should be able to come up with something that works.
    I have Hercus lathe and still got all my fingers, so I should be well placed to make something.




    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Hi Oddbod,
    Below are roller guide sets.They are of course intended for woodwork bandsaws but they can be readily adapted to a metal cutting vertical blade bandsaw.

    https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...ring-guide-set
    Hope you are sitting down as the above one is bit exxy.

    https://www.carbatec.com.au/roller-blade-guide-14b-saw- this one fits in place of the blade guides

    There is no reason why you can't make your own if you have the equipment. The design lends itself to being fabricated.

    The bearings on each side of the blade require eccentric turned bolts through each of the bearings.

    Basically it is a hex head bolt offset in the four jaw- Offset could be as little as 2mm. The hole bored lengthways through them will accept the fixing screw- probably a socket head to keep if compact.
    This arrangement allows the bearing to cam over to bear against the moving blade.

    A lathe with a four jaw chuck is best but the job is possible on a good drill press if one is carefully.

    The blade itself is pretty important as it must be run in properly. IF it wears on one side of the set it will pull to that side and is near impossible to keep it tracking straight from that point on.

    The top wheel is adjusted until it is absolutely parallel and the outer edges flush with the bottom fixed wheel. This means the table has to be removed but I supposed its coming off if you are rebuilding the saw

    The top wheel can be shimmed to achieve parallel.

    Got to go for now but will come back to this.

    Grahame

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,656

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    If the top and bottom wheel are parallel how do you adjust for blade position on the wheel, or have I misunderstood.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

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    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    If the top and bottom wheel are parallel how do you adjust for blade position on the wheel, or have I misunderstood.
    Hi China,
    On a fixed vertical blade metal cutting bandsaw for the blade to track the wheels must be parallel with each other. The wheels have a flange at the back- a bit like the the flange on a railway wheel albeit a tiny one about the thickness of the blade.

    The back of the blade -the smooth edge -runs snug up against that flange.

    The teeth over hang the oppositte edge and do not contact the wheel. Looking down from the top wheel both wheels need to be in the vertical plane.

    If you place a straight edge or a level vertically across the TWO edges of each wheel need to sit flat against the straight edge/level.

    If this is not so, you will go nuts trying to keep the blade on the wheels. I had all sorts of trouble with my basic H &F model as the wheel was not correctly shimmed out far enough and had to machine a shim disc to make edges parallel. Plus that, I to had to build a new top wheel as the aluminum one was .0.020" out of round.
    It was hard to use when the blade jumps 0.020" on every revolution.

    The woodcutting saw wheels are different as they have a tire which prevents damage to the saw blade teeth.The center of the blade sits roughly on the center of the tire.

    There will be an adjuster( at the top near the tensioner end) to push the blade one way or the other for minor tracking.
    Screw it out and wheel edge moves out. Unscrew and it comes back.It is meant to move the wheel only very slightly. I found once i had the wheels parallel the blade did not jump off.

    My info on the wheels alignment came out of a wood working bandsaw book- yeah different, but the alignment principals are the same.
    The local council library might even have it- Band Saw Basics by Mark and Gene Dugineske Sterling Publishing Co. New York ISBN 0-8069 - 7210 - 6

    There was some stuff on the net at the time,once again about the woodworking bandsaws.

    Sorry I can,t scan it as I have stupidly upgraded the Imac OS and have lost the ability to print and scan.

    Grahame

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    194

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    Well men, I had a win today and finally got that top wheel adjuster mechanism unfrozen.
    It too about 36 hours of soaking in diesel.
    I removed it twice and applied heat and while hot gave all contact points a shot of engine oil which tends to be dragged into the frozen joints.
    While still quite warm I dropped it back into the diesel bath twice and once out after the 2nd time I started applying force/load to the centre slide block and tapped it lightly with a small hammer and eventually it decided to let go.

    I cleaned up the slide shafts with a wire brush on my pedestal grinder and they looked to be in better condition than I had anticipated.

    So, I have gone and cleaned up all items with thinners and given them a coat of red oxide followed by a colour coat.

    Tomorrow, I will re-assemble using some nickel grease and clean and repaint the inside of the wheel cabinet.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    194

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    I've had a go at making my own roller bearing guide.
    It is not finished yet and still requires me to make a block that welds to what I have pictured, that will also attached to the existing Steelfast guide post.

    The rear bearing does slide marginally, but the Steelfast post also allows for back & forward movement adjustment.

    I noted the advise of somebody previously on here (so thanks for that little hint) regarding cam adjustment for side roller bearings, which is what I have done and it appears to have turned out pretty darn good adjustment range wise.

    It has been a very slow and tedious task, but it is looking like it might be worth the effort.
    I am not sure if the same configuration will work for the under table guide as space is much less available to run a rear bearing in this new orientation.

    Nonetheless, I guess I will deal with that when the time comes.
    I think I spent more time contemplating and figuring stuff out measurements, compared to actually fabrication time...

    It is a bit industrial looking, but I guess most prototypes are.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    6,438

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    Hi Oddbod,

    Nice fabrication work !

    Now I would put a small diameter cap screw between the sides of the back bearing support so that you can adjust the blade depth between the side bearings ! You do not want the blade teeth running between them. The side bearings should just run on the flat part of the blade just behind the teeth.

    Excuse me asking, but are those knurling wheels that you have used to support the side bearings ?
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
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    194

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Oddbod,

    Nice fabrication work !

    Now I would put a small diameter cap screw between the sides of the back bearing support so that you can adjust the blade depth between the side bearings ! You do not want the blade teeth running between them. The side bearings should just run on the flat part of the blade just behind the teeth.

    Excuse me asking, but are those knurling wheels that you have used to support the side bearings ?

    Yes, they are knurled knobs I made, as they have the offset hole that works as a cam to move the side bearings towards or away from the blade.
    Nothing fancy, but fiddly to make.
    I'm a bush machinist, never been taught or had a lessson.
    I do it my way and I am sure it is not right but it seems to get me where I need to be on my projects.
    I have a older style Hercus lathe that is similar to one you guys had in the UK many moons ago.
    The one trick I have learnt since fooling around with my lathe is that there is an easy way and many more difficult ways.
    Generally, the easy way requires for thought and planned steps of machining that follows a bigger picture overall.

    I'd like a larger lathe, but just dont have the space and would find it difficult to justify as my skill level is lacking I feel.
    I hear you regarding that rear bearing adjustment.
    I have set it as best I can for now but have not been 100% sure if I have found the sweet spot first up.

    Initially, I had a vison of requiring two side bearing on each side to support the blade, however I did not purchase the extra bearings and once into the project it was obvious they would not be required since they would definitely interfere with the teeth zone on the blade.
    The blade I have set up with is a 13mm wide blade, but I do also have an old 10mm or 3/8" blade that maybe touch and go with keeping the teeth zone clear of the side bearings.

    If you would like I could dis-assemble my adjuster unit/gizmo and photograph all the components, which may help some other folks...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,438

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    Hi Oddbod,

    Thankyou for your reply and the additional information. I completely understand what you are trying to do !

    The trick if you can call it that to keeping the teeth on the blade from being crushed by the side guide bearings is to (A) make sure the the width of the bearing is narrower than the blade land behind the teeth and (B) use the rear bearing to push the blade forward. That is why I suggested a screw to allow you to move the back bearing forward, or you could just use a shim under the plate. Either way will work just fine.

    In use the work piece that you are cutting will tend to push the blade away from the cut, and the rear bearing is used to prevent that movement. The same applies to the set of bearings below the table.

    The other thing that you might not appreciate is that the side bearings, top and bottom, also control the amount of twist that the blade sees. So the ability to adjust the twist is an advantage, particularly if you need to make a straight cut against a guide.

    Thankyou for your explanation about the knurled bits under the side bearing mounts ! It just looked very odd in your picture. However a quite logical way to obtain the offset adjustment and probably much more simple than machining a cammed shaft.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddbod1 View Post
    If you would like I could dis-assemble my adjuster unit/gizmo and photograph all the components, which may help some other folks...
    Hi Oddbod1,

    I think interested members will appreciate your offer. Thank you very much.


    Its pretty satisfying to make up something of this nature to improve the function of our machines.


    It is great to see you have had success with this mod.


    Grahame

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    194

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    Happy to post it dis-assembled, will do it soon.
    Thanks for your confidence Grahame, it still needs to be tested on the saw I figure.

    I've spent a fair bit of time today cutting a sold metal block down to size and drilling a matching hole in it to attach to my existing guide post and it also required a tapped hole for a locking grub screw.

    Mostly tedious work, but does require accuarcy.
    Slow and steady, I say...

    More soon,

    Russ.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    194

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    Pic's as promised.
    I'm no photographer, but I hope they may be of some help to others.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

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    Hi guys,
    .
    Heres a drawing which I found on an old drive. yeah! yeah1 ,I know, a day late and a dollar short

    I did this in 2011. Make of it what you will. Its hard to see but note the offset hole in the hex head . A socket head cap screw fits in the offset hole to lock the bearing adjustment..

    Grahame


    BANDSAW blade GUIDE bearings drwg. copy.jpg

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    194

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    That is a great drawing to have posted here Grahame.
    If there is any failing with my gizmo, it is that the bearings I chose have too smaller center holes (9mm).
    Originally, I had planned to use them with a slotted slide hole to adjust side ways movement.
    Then decided that the cam comment was worthy of consideration, but then had to work with what I had.

    In hindsight, there still some potential in my setup to gain a little more adjustment if I did a remake, but for now I see that I should be able to satisfy all adjustment needs.
    I must say I feel more than lucky with my choice of hole locations that seems to have worked out very well for what I need.

    The funny thing is, I was an engineering draftsman in my early days, yet these days I rarely if ever make a drawing of anything, it is all in my head and just developes as I progress.
    If things go wrong I have nobody to blame but myself...

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    194

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    I guessing this thread I started was regarding blades in the first instance and since I know have my pre-ordered blades, I should for the record post some of the details;

    The blade length supplied and has been test fitted was 2530mm or 99 1/2".
    I purchased 2 blades, both 1/2" wide bimetal.
    First is a 8-12 tooth blade,
    Second is a 10-14 tooth blade.

    The cost if anybody is interested was $116.88 Aussie $'s for two blades in Nov, 2021.

    Progress continues on my guide, it has been a bit tricky working out how to best attach it to the guide post...

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Australia
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    194

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    Well, I've made a little more progress with my attempt to modernise my bandsaw guides.
    I have now mdae and figured out an attachment method that looks to be workable.
    I still need to paint it, but here is a couple of pic's of what I have.

    Next step is to figure out to achieve something similar for the under table guide.
    It wont be an exact copy of the top setup as space is limited.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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