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  1. #1
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    Post What's a good resource for learning how can spring steel can be bent, twisted, etc?

    A couple weeks ago I was goofing around in the basement and knocked our "camping shower tent" in a zip-bag off a shelf.

    The bag wasn't zipped...
    And almost instantly the shower tent popped out of the bag, unfolded itself, and sprung into its full size.
    All 7-ish feet tall of it in a basement that's only 6 feet tall.

    It was dramatic enough that the whole incident stuck in my mind vividly, and I've been thinking about how cool spring steel is.
    Since then I've played around a couple times with twisting the shower tent into all kinds of weird shapes and seeing how "alive" spring steel acts.

    So I got a crazy idea that it would be fun to do sculpture with spring steel.
    Especially sculpture that captures that "alive" and "responsive" property of spring steel, especially when it's under tension, then pushed on by some force, like an observer's hand, or maybe wind.
    I'd be looking to create structures under some kind of "tension", I think, that could be manhandled by teenagers without proper supervision, and still spring back into shape.

    I have a welder I inherited from my dad last year that I've only used for one tack so far, but it works.

    I've tried to Google looking for books on how to bend, twist, plate* spring steel... and so far I haven't found anything.
    I don't know if I'm not using the right search words?

    But I'm looking for some learning material on working with spring steel.
    And I'm also looking for a source of a reasonable (starting SMALL) amount of material. (so I don't get carried away and destroy the shower tent and get on my wife's naughty list)

    Ideas?

    Thanks!

    D


    *so a sculpture won't rust outside

  2. #2
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    Do you realize that if/should someone get injured from your design/toy/structure, that you could be liable for any/all costs related to it!!!!
    You haven't mentioned where you did a search, but I looked on you tube by punching in
    "Tips on how to work with spring steel". It came up with quite a few clips on the subject.

    There's a book (one of 48), in a Workshop Practice Series that deals with your subject choice. https://www.teepublishing.co.uk/book...d-manufacture/

    HTH
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  3. #3
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Teenagers without supervision. . . . . .

    My first thought was my year 11 high school physics class when we were doing experiments on "wave motion" with large Slinkys.

    We were working outside in pairs as we had to stretch the Slinky about 3m apart (a student at each end) and send pulses along the slinky etc.

    The then teacher announced he had to leave for a few minutes and we were to carry on.

    Within 30s someone said "How far do you think these slinkies can stretch?"
    Almost instantly my experimental partner took off, his end of the slinky in hand and when he reached a bit more than about 10 m the slinky left his hand and seeing it coming back at me at a rate of knots I let my end go.

    The resulting collision of the two ends of the slinky caused a massive tangle which was obviously going to be very difficult to untangle.
    Several others pairs of students had done similar things, one student was not quick enough to let go and the slinky fair whacked him on the forehead drawing blood above one eye.

    We tried desperately to untangle our "ball of slinky" but rushing it was clearly just making things worse.
    Just then the teacher appeared over our shoulders and grabbing the ball of slinky said, "You two boys will see me after school today"

    After school my experimental partner and I were told we had to untangle the slinky but without bending or damaging it, and I remember it took us about an hour.
    We got 0/10 for that experiment report - only one comment - "Failure to report what really happened"

  4. #4
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    Hey Kryn,

    Thanks for the input.

    I should clarify that my estimate of the kind of things I'd need to know for how to make a sculpture look and move the way I want would be knowledge very similar to what a mechanical engineer that designs something out of spring steel would know.

    I'd need to know about how to create tension that makes a piece want to curl, or uncurl, or twist, how to create something with more than one piece so their strength compliments each other, or offsets each other, how tying two pieces of steel together where their "dimensional strength" acts in different planes, how to make a structure "prone" to twisting, how to make a structure "not prone" to twisting, what is the impact when two pieces under tension are connected together, and should that connection be welding or loosely connecting, can I make something which twists in the XY plane and doesn't collapse in the Z direction when it does so, etc. etc.

    Yes, I did look on YouTube and Google, searched for probably 4-5 hours, and found very little of that kind of knowledge.

    But I'd guess there are college textbooks with the kind of info I'm looking for?
    Or MAYBE people here who know that kind of stuff through a career, and could point me in the direction they learned that stuff?

    D

  5. #5
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I seem to remember there are already many different spring steel toys out there.

    The one I recall from the 1960s was a set of interlocking chrome plated steel spring rings that could be turned into different shapesa pyramid, cube, sphere-ish shape etc.

    It was the sort of thing you got as a Xmas stocking stuffer - played with for 5-10 minutes and then never looked at it again.

    One example is something called "flow rings", plenty of pics in search engines

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Teenagers without supervision. . . . . .

    My first thought was my year 11 high school physics class when we were doing experiments on "wave motion" with large Slinkys.

    We were working outside in pairs as we had to stretch the Slinky about 3m apart (a student at each end) and send pulses along the slinky etc.

    The then teacher announced he had to leave for a few minutes and we were to carry on.

    Within 30s someone said "How far do you think these slinkies can stretch?"
    Almost instantly my experimental partner took off, his end of the slinky in hand and when he reached a bit more than about 10 m the slinky left his hand and seeing it coming back at me at a rate of knots I let my end go.

    The resulting collision of the two ends of the slinky caused a massive tangle which was obviously going to be very difficult to untangle.
    Several others pairs of students had done similar things, one student was not quick enough to let go and the slinky fair whacked him on the forehead drawing blood above one eye.

    We tried desperately to untangle our "ball of slinky" but rushing it was clearly just making things worse.
    Just then the teacher appeared over our shoulders and say "You two boys will see me after school"

    After school my experimental partner and I were told we had to untangle the slinky but without bending or damaging it, and I remember it took us about an hour.
    We got 0/10 for that experiment report - only one comment - "Failure to report what really happened"
    Bob, too funny.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by asldkfjgh View Post
    But I'd guess there are college textbooks with the kind of info I'm looking for?
    Or MAYBE people here who know that kind of stuff through a career, and could point me in the direction they learned that stuff? D
    The people who would know about that stuff would have done a University course, over several years, to gain that sort of knowledge. We do have a member on here that may offer assistance, when he logs in. I won't give his name, as that would be an invasion of his Privacy.
    My thoughts would be to know someone who goes to Uni. and does a similar course or find a Professor who is in that field, that may be able to help you with books to read, etc.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by asldkfjgh View Post
    I should clarify that my estimate of the kind of things I'd need to know for how to make a sculpture look and move the way I want would be knowledge very similar to what a mechanical engineer that designs something out of spring steel would know.
    The only things that mechanical engineers design out of spring steel are springs.
    There are very few times when an engineer will set out to design something that is not normally meant to be rigid. Any non-rigid bits will be done using separate components put in for that very purpose, as when parts can flop around, their behaviour (and hence predicting their failure) becomes very difficult to model. If you take vehicle suspension for example, all the 'structural' bits are assumed to stay the same shape even though they don't in reality. The only parts that are assumed to be able to change are the springs (and dampers).

    Quote Originally Posted by asldkfjgh View Post
    I'd need to know about how to create tension that makes a piece want to curl, or uncurl, or twist, how to create something with more than one piece so their strength compliments each other, or offsets each other, how tying two pieces of steel together where their "dimensional strength" acts in different planes, how to make a structure "prone" to twisting, how to make a structure "not prone" to twisting, what is the impact when two pieces under tension are connected together, and should that connection be welding or loosely connecting, can I make something which twists in the XY plane and doesn't collapse in the Z direction when it does so, etc. etc.
    The sorts of things that you are asking about are not the sort of thing that can be explained that easily - the best way to learn would be to get some spring steel wire and experiment with some models. Model aircraft shops stock it as sometimes modellers need to make springs. Spring manufacturers may sell you some wire or small pieces to play with. In it's most basic form, spring steel is medium to high carbon steel. To make stuff like music wire there may be things added to it, but it's all about making sure that the spring actions take place in the elastic region of the stress/ strain curve and forming takes place in the plastic region. If you remember as a kid pulling on a spring until it did not want to return to it's original shape, the springing part was elastic while the permanent deformation was in the plastic region.

    Getting parts to move preferentially in one way is typically done by either arranging that the forces present push things that way or that the structure is least rigid in that direction. If you weld springs, you will draw their temper and they won't spring as well. Mechanical fastening methods only (that can include rivet and bolts).

    Michael

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    There are very few times when an engineer will set out to design something that is not normally meant to be rigid.

    Compliant Machines? Compliant Mechanisms?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    Compliant Machines? Compliant Mechanisms?
    Looking at the images that Google provides, those things are a set of rigid links with some sort of hinging between them.

    Michael

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by asldkfjgh View Post
    I've tried to Google looking for books on how to bend, twist, plate* spring steel... and so far I haven't found anything.
    I don't know if I'm not using the right search words?
    welcome to the MetalWork Forums


    Some of your countrymen build muzzleloading rifles for themselves.These rifles contain flat v shaped spring which can break.

    When replacement springs are not available, some muzzleloaders make their own springs from flat stock.

    Track of the Wolf a company specialising in all things muzzleloading, has books ,one of which gives the how tos on making this vee spring from flat stock.
    Thats as close as providing an answer as I can give.

    The link for this relatively cheap booklet is :

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...303/2/BOOK-SVS

    Our forum is based in Australia ,so I can't tell you where to buy the raw stock., but if you join a muzzleloaders forum they should be able to direct you as they are almost local not on the other side of the world as I am.

    I hope this helps,

    Grahame

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    Looking at the images that Google provides, those things are a set of rigid links with some sort of hinging between them.

    Michael

    The simplest ones, yes.


    2D compliant machines are usually just pliers, dual position springs (light switches), inclined planes, etc.

    3D compliant machines are often just rotated 2D ones,
    like self-locking collets (think push to lock air fittings, but stronger).



    ...but there are some exceptions, like what I call "Mechanical Origami,"
    which either uses cleverly cut materials to "pop-up" in response to a force:

    https://www.designboom.com/technolog...vard-students/
    Screen Shot 2021-10-25 at 7.52.42 am.jpg


    or folds along stress lines, to allow a thin material to out-perform a thicker one:
    Screen Shot 2021-10-25 at 7.44.43 am.jpg)


    Bellows
    Mounted.jpg






    If anyone is bored,

    https://www.pinterest.com.au/engrefp...nt-mechanisms/


    or really bored, chapter 5 onwards of:

    Schleicher_BioinspiredCompliantMechanismsforArchitecturalDesign_web.pdf

    describes simulations of plant leaf movement mechanisms (e.g. flower petals, stralitzias, venus fly traps),

    and p140 shows a "Flecto n® Facade concept" where "a small defection of the beam element causes a sideways apping of the lamellas. The Flecto n® component is thereby capable of achieving an opening angle between -90° to +90°. This freedom of movement is suffcient to fully cover and protect the facade in the open configuration."






    Back to the original poster's question.

    I think all of these can be built using welded steel (or brazed spring steel) instead of sheet material.
    Just needs clever layup so the springy elements either deflect or torsion well away from the joins.

    Sadly, I don't know anyone who teaches this. It is a sort of intersection between art and science, whose geometry drives people mad, and creates these sort of things:
    Theo-Jansen-Strandbeest_dezeen_468_7.jpg
    https://www.strandbeest.com

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    If anyone is bored,
    https://www.pinterest.com.au/engrefp...nt-mechanisms/

    or really bored, chapter 5 onwards of:
    Schleicher_BioinspiredCompliantMechanismsforArchitecturalDesign_web.pdf
    describes simulations of plant leaf movement mechanisms (e.g. flower petals, stralitzias, venus fly traps),
    and p140 shows a "Flecto n® Facade concept" where "a small defection of the beam element causes a sideways apping of the lamellas. The Flecto n® component is thereby capable of achieving an opening angle between -90° to +90°. This freedom of movement is suffcient to fully cover and protect the facade in the open configuration."

    Back to the original poster's question.
    I think all of these can be built using welded steel (or brazed spring steel) instead of sheet material.
    Just needs clever layup so the springy elements either deflect or torsion well away from the joins.
    Thank you, Nigel,

    There are a couple things here along the lines of what I was looking for,
    especially the Schleicher thesis and Pinterest collection of "compliant mechanisms".

    I would never have guessed "compliant mechanisms" would be the search phrase that would get me to the results I want, or at least one angle of it.
    I appreciate that your knowledge or search skills are better than mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    Sadly, I don't know anyone who teaches this. It is a sort of intersection between art and science, whose geometry drives people mad, and creates these sort of things...
    That sounds about like the kind of thing I'd dive into for fun.

    D

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    If anyone is bored,
    https://www.pinterest.com.au/engrefp...nt-mechanisms/

    or really bored, chapter 5 onwards of:
    Schleicher_BioinspiredCompliantMechanismsforArchitecturalDesign_web.pdf
    describes simulations of plant leaf movement mechanisms (e.g. flower petals, stralitzias, venus fly traps),
    and p140 shows a "Flecto n® Facade concept" where "a small defection of the beam element causes a sideways apping of the lamellas. The Flecto n® component is thereby capable of achieving an opening angle between -90° to +90°. This freedom of movement is suffcient to fully cover and protect the facade in the open configuration."

    Back to the original poster's question.
    I think all of these can be built using welded steel (or brazed spring steel) instead of sheet material.
    Just needs clever layup so the springy elements either deflect or torsion well away from the joins.

    Sadly, I don't know anyone who teaches this. It is a sort of intersection between art and science, whose geometry drives people mad, and creates these sort of things
    This is what I was looking for.

    Thanks Nigel!

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