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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Willowbank QLD
    Posts
    517

    Default Lathe upgrade question

    Hello all

    I currently have a CQ 6128 lathe (280 X 610mm) www.minitech.com.au: Product: 'Lathe 280 x 610 with G/Box' .

    I have had it for a number of years and have put a three phase motor and VFD on it. It would appear that there are times when a bigger lathe would be handy. We have probable all being here. I am not sure where the limit for hobby use is. The main things I am would like different about my current lathe is a bigger spindle bore, currently MT4 or 25.4mm, a slightly longer bed and a little larger swing. It would also be nice to just move a lever for thread cutting instead of changing gears. Plus I feel its accuracy could be improved, this is possibly the main issue. From a completely non practical point of view I prefer the look of the old Hercus or Macson style lathes. They seem to have the curves in the right place like someone designed it and not just made it out of a block of metal. The positives are that I own it and I like the VFD.

    I see 4 possible solutions and would love opinions from the more experienced.

    1. Be happy and grateful with what I have. The easy low stress option. I am also not knocking Chinese lathes as if it was not for them I would not own one.
    2. Keep what I have and do some improvements like scrape the cross slide to improve accuracy and put a bigger chuck on it. This has low cost and with the bigger chuck I get a bigger bore for a couple of inches. I don’t do a lot of thread cutting so changing gears is not a major issue.
    3. Sell it and purchase an older style lathe with the extra features. I may be buying a can of worms and it may be less accurate due to wear. From a non-practical perspective I like the idea of owning an Australian made lathe. I may be looking though rose coloured glasses but I have the belief that an old Australian lathe will outlast the Chinese one. I am happy to be corrected on this point.
    4. Sell it and buy a bigger New/Used Chinese lathe with the features I want. It will still look like a block of metal which is only a personal opinion and I may have to do most of the same work as option 2 plus add a VFD.

    Hopefully some of you have been down this path and have some insights to offer.

    Thanks

    Steve

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    666

    Default

    If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend Clough42’s Electronic Leadscrew. I have an old 1950’s Hercus C and never find it lacking for the work I do. I do however (like you) get frustrated changing gears and generally leave it on a very slow feed rate. The ELS is on my list for the next upgrade.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Willowbank QLD
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Neevo

    I had not heard of this. It is exactly the sort of information I am after. If I decide to keep my current lathe it would be a game changer.

    Thanks for the information and I would love to hear more about this.

    Steve

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    I have been down the old lathe road i think 6 times. Its a great road but you have to accept that everything will need somewhere between some work and a massive amount of work. If you look at a macson id try for one without a gap (the gap on mine drove me nuts when needing to work up close to the chuck)

    Took me a long time to get an old lathe that didn't need much work and lots of wheeling, dealing and machinery moving.

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Toorloo Arm, VIC
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,270

    Default

    Well, I recently went from an AL335 to a Graziano SAG180... thus far I don't regret it.

    My AL335 wasn't the pinnacle of build quality, so I don't think there is any real difference in accuracy in the ways between the worn Graziano and the not worn AL335 (especially for what I normally do). Spindle has less runout on the Graziano (amazing it's still so low given it was built in the 50s), but tailstock is sloppier. The extra rigidity, HP, the clutch and the 2" spindle bore is a real nice improvement over the AL335 though. That and the fact the the Graziano is one of fairly few machines where every thread listed on the plate (both metric and imperial) is available via levers alone (no change gears involved, unless you want to do the module/dp threads).

    The AL335 was actually pretty good for my use in this regard, as there were only two change gear combinations to get all the listed metric threads (which I mostly use), and they were carefully setup so all pitches under a certain number were on one set (think maybe 1.5mm?). Imperial was rather more of a cluster, needing all 6 gears included to get all the threads. I looked at a bunch of other machines along the way, and often the threading layouts for metric particularly were painful. Takisawa TSLs for example have a kind of shotgun arrangement on metric threads, where each change gear setup only covers two or three pitches, and generally not consecutive. Something like going from cutting a 1.5mm to a 1.75mm would require a different set of change gears. Somewhat surprising for a natively metric country, but not at all uncommon from various machines from all over Europe and Asia.

    If you're cutting imperial threads, they're often less painful with regard to change gears on older machinery, but not always...

    Dunno what your space/power/budget constraints are, but there's only one machine that shows up on the Facebook marketplace when you search in Brisbane (and it's not even in Brisbane, but Gympie). It's a ripper of a machine, although not Australian....

    https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...tory_type=post

    Maybe a little pricey, a little heavy - but a look on eBay says everything else up there at the moment is either even bigger, or more expensive, or both.... At least it's been stored out of the weather by the looks, not absolutely covered in rust like most Macsons that I've seen round here for any cheaper - might have a bit of tooling stashed away with it too.

    If you wanted to go 'all in' on the upgrade, I'd say it's about as big as most people would want in a home shop (probably similar footprint to the average Macson? Fair whack heavier though!), and if it's in decent nick you should never feel the need to upgrade again.... Or move house.

    I did start scraping the AL335 in - it's a lot of work, and I decided I'd far rather expend that effort on a far more solid machine that was built properly in the first place. Thus far I haven't scraped anything on the Graziano, although I have spent a fair whack of time cleaning years of gunge out of it, fixing minor things, and painting it. All of which was far more rewarding than scraping the AL335. The Graziano is nicely built with quality in mind, making it a pleasure to work on, whilst the AL335 constantly reminded me that it was built down to a price - and a low one at that.

    You mention liking the look of the Macsons - ever since I first saw a Graziano SAG180 many years ago, I really liked the styling of them. May make absolutely no difference to how the machine works, but it does make a difference to how I work. I like opening the garage door and seeing the louvered door on it, and it inspires me to want to work on it, or come up with projects to do on it. The old mind over matter thing I guess - I just find nice tools/equipment are always more engaging to use.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Sunshine Coast QLD
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    Well, I recently went from an AL335 to a Graziano SAG180... thus far I don't regret it.
    ………….

    My AL335 wasn't the pinnacle of build quality, so I don't think there is any real difference in accuracy in the ways between the worn Graziano and the not worn AL335 (especially for what I normally do). Spindle has less runout on the Graziano (amazing it's still so low given it was built in the 50s),….

    ………….The Graziano is nicely built with quality in mind, making it a pleasure to work on, whilst the AL335 constantly reminded me that it was built down to a price - and a low one at that.

    ……….,.. The old mind over matter thing I guess - I just find nice tools/equipment are always more engaging to use.
    There seems to be a hole in the market for a good quality, modern lathe. Even at the inevitable higher price.
    I’m not so interested in the quality issues associated with many (most?) of the Chinese offerings.
    Nor does “reconditioning” an old machine, that is unlikely to be “Metric”, appeal.

    I’d like:
    At least 300x600 capacity.
    Camlock chuck attachment
    Spindle bore at least 38mm
    Metric lead screw (and measurements)
    Quick change gearbox
    Up to $10K

    Something built to a decent standard - EG no casting sand in the gearbox oil.
    Rigid and square (or easily “squared”.)
    Probably Taiwanese.
    I’d rather pay the money for “quality” rather than extras like DRO’s/Quick Change Tool Holder/“Starter sets”
    I can then ad what I want.

    Does anything like this exist?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    I dont think it does for 10k.

    Cyclematic is nearer 30, and not camlock
    The Taiwanese made colchester/harrison m300 perfectly fits your description but is 20k plus.

    Lots of bigger Taiwanese machines but all significantly bigger and more expensive, in the 20 - 30k range.

    Your only option i know of is used, thats a good budget though. I have a metric smart and brown 1024vsl in essentially new condition and it was about that price.

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Sunshine Coast QLD
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Just another Chinese, dubious quality machine, with some nice features?

    https://www.machines4u.com.au/view/a...s-More/526985/

    Anyone any experience with this make?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Ahhhhh....... A question as old as machining itself! What lathe to upgrade to?

    This really comes down to a few simple questions

    How much do I want to spend?

    How much room do I have?

    Am I prepared to work on a second hand lathe to "get it right" I like rebuilding old machines and enjoy scraping and fettling machines, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

    To be honest, capacity wise, a Hercus 9" or 260 doesn't really offer anything more. Having said that, if you get one in good shape with little use they are a lovely machine to use!!! Any of the SB clones will be a LOT more rigid than the lathe you have and will be much nicer to turn with.
    A Hercus will also command a premium! You will pay for one!! Ironically a Sheraton or Demco does not seem to command as much coin! You may get a better deal with one of these makes. I have owned both and they are all very well made machines.

    If you want a capacity upgrade with a machine that isn't the size of a battleship, have a really close look at the Taiwanese lathes out there. Usually pick them up for very reasonable coin and they are pretty good machines, not perfect but still pretty good, much much better than anything Chinese in this size range.

    If you want a really nice Taiwanese gear head lathe have a good long look at a Hafco AL960B. New they are around 6500buck! Very good value for a new machine, seriously!

    Macson lathes were awesome! Much like Brunswicks! Both makes made a smaller engine lathe which I think takes about 1000mm between centers and will swing 300mm. They are not common however nice they are.
    All the other lathes these guys made were very large and built for industry. Don't get me wrong, if you find one in good shape and you have the room then by all means go for it! It'll give you a lifetime of reliable service! Just be aware of their size. They are all upwards of a ton! Having said that, they can do nearly anything! No chatter, no stalling, no arguments with harder materials!

    Now onto the next point, most of these older Aussie machines will be imperial machines, not necessarily a bad thing, just be aware. After all it's only numbers at the end of the day. You can also just retrofit a DRO = imperial to metric and the push of a button!
    In this caliber of machine, have a look at Visby's and Nuttals, both good machines, particularly the later model metric Nuttal Generation series! Very nice lathes! Once again though all upwards of 1 ton.

    Hope this helps
    Matthew

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Willowbank QLD
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Thanks for all of the replies so far. I would be up for rebuilding a machine if I could find the right machine at the right price.
    The max Length I could practically go would be about four foot (12mm) but ideally around three foot (900mm) would fit nicely.

    Jekyll And Hyde said it well with this statement "I really liked the styling of them. May make absolutely no difference to how the machine works, but it does make a difference to how I work. I like opening the garage door and seeing the louvered door on it, and it inspires me to want to work on it, or come up with projects to do on it. The old mind over matter thing I guess - I just find nice tools/equipment are always more engaging to use." So that covers the looks department.

    As far as build quality goes, there is something nice about using an item that will last the rest of my life. It is hard to describe but it is a contrast to the disposable world we are living in.

    I can work in imperial or metric and in all logic a quality Australian lathe is likely to be imperial.

    What would be my ideal is to buy the right lathe at a price equivalent to condition from an older gentleman or lady who has decided it is time to stop. I would love to hear about the right lathe and when I go to pick it up, find myself leaving three hours later because they have been sharing the history and reliving the good times. I have found the over the years the purchases that have gone well seem to result in a lot more enjoyment owning the item.

    For me this is a hobby, and is meant to be an enjoyable and relaxing way to spend my time. I have had a chat to Marcus and will be doing one of his courses. I would like the forever lathe before I do the course but doing the course will give me the forever skills.

    Steve

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Freo
    Age
    68
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    There seems to be a hole in the market for a good quality, modern lathe. Even at the inevitable higher price.
    I’m not so interested in the quality issues associated with many (most?) of the Chinese offerings.
    Nor does “reconditioning” an old machine, that is unlikely to be “Metric”, appeal.

    I’d like:
    At least 300x600 capacity.
    Camlock chuck attachment
    Spindle bore at least 38mm
    Metric lead screw (and measurements)
    Quick change gearbox
    Up to $10K

    Something built to a decent standard - EG no casting sand in the gearbox oil.
    Rigid and square (or easily “squared”.)
    Probably Taiwanese.
    I’d rather pay the money for “quality” rather than extras like DRO’s/Quick Change Tool Holder/“Starter sets”
    I can then ad what I want.

    Does anything like this exist?
    Sunmaster make a nice machine in that size but its about 18K i went a bit bigger and up in the standard of machine and that was 35K so somewhere between those numbers i would think most Taiwanese machines sit.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,540

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Brisbane
    Age
    57
    Posts
    12

    Default

    I went down the same path and wanted a similar machine. Queensland has slim pickings in quality second hand lathes and after many months of waiting to find what I wanted I just gave up and purchased this Centre Lathe Ø360x1000 Turning Capacity | Whitelaw Engineering Machinery (whitelawmachinery.com.au) Been waiting 7 months for the thing to float over here with all the problems with shipping that's going on in the world and it arrived this week, I should see it in my shed next week. I refuse to buy Chinese goods these days in all my purchasing as much as I possible can get away with it so was OK to get a better quality Taiwanese lathe. With the money being spent I just had to try before buying and I felt this machine was a big step up from the Chinese stuff I had seen. For 40 years I have always wanted to get a lathe and tinker in the shed so the money in some ways was not the big issue it was more feeling happy that what I was getting was what I wanted.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Have you look at Newmac Equipment? They have some nice lathes there. https://www.newmac.com.au/lathes-for-sale/

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