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4th Jan 2021, 05:00 PM #1Most Valued Member
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The great scrap metal dealer Stainless Steel scam
I took a load of scrap metal to one of the local scrap dealers today. Only had a small amount of Stainless.
The buggers (all the scrappies I've ever sold to - they are all the same) get the S/S and run over it with a magnet. If the magnet sticks you get "lot of steel in here" and you only get paid for the stuff that didn't stick.
Even though S/S, depending on what it is, (Martensitic etc) can be magnetic. I bet the stuff that sticks doesn't go into the normal steel bin though. I only had a small amount so it wasn't worth arguing about but if you had a fair bit it would be worth doing your homework first.
Too bad the hand held analysers are so exxy.
peter
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4th Jan 2021, 06:21 PM #2Diamond Member
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Doesn't matter how much you have, we had 500kg of super duplex swarf, all went in the steel bin because it was magnetic.
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4th Jan 2021, 06:29 PM #3Gear expert in training
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Cos when they remelt it I'd assume that it all goes in and they start from scratch. It's not worth their time and money to test, sort and store 20 different types of swarf.
1020, 4140, EN36A, we even did a fancy 630 SS job, all in the steel bin.
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4th Jan 2021, 09:31 PM #4Most Valued Member
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Didn't do a lot of SS work but the only thing our scrappy cared about was how dense the scrap was. Think they paid about double per ton for something like a 44g drum with 750kg of 6.5mm x 0.5mm slugs. But that was 20 years ago, is anyone still melting scrap in au or is it all going for a boat ride?
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4th Jan 2021, 09:38 PM #5Gear expert in training
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Did a quick google for metal recyclers, they don't all make it obvious but some do clearly state that they supply both local and overseas mills.
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4th Jan 2021, 09:47 PM #6Novice
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The material constituent that gives stainless steel it's value is nickel. Generally speaking all stainless that is magnetic has little or no nickel in it. Some scrap dealers, where they are dealing with a known product, will pay a premium for higher grade austenitic (nickel grade) stainless steels, eg 316 or 310. But, when it comes to ferritic (magnetic) stainless the premium that the dealer can get for it is so little extra that it's not worth buggerising around with, so it just goes in with the steel.
Yes, there have always been a lot of dodgy scrap dealers, but they're all probably a lot better than metal identification than you are. So tell me about it when you're getting ripped off on the weight, that's always been the big con.
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6th Jan 2021, 05:45 PM #7
I'm not up on the metallurgy of it, but if the magnetic elements are Iron, nickel, and Cobalt, why is a high nickel alloy not magnetic?
I remember some faint details of face-centred cubic lattice in the atomic structure of metals as they share electrons, but not sure whether this is at play for an alloy with a higher overall magnetic element content...
In short - Magnets: How do they work?!
Is it a miracle? I Don't want to speak to a scientist.
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6th Jan 2021, 05:51 PM #8Gear expert in training
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Way above my pay grade, but...something something quantum mechanics Also face centred cube vs. body centred cube.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...gnets-work-on/
Also, it's apparently non-magnetic because of the nickel. Go figure...
https://www.greenwoodmagnetics.com/r...ainless-steel/
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6th Jan 2021, 06:19 PM #9
Curse you, Einstein, you've bamboozled me again!!!
"Fundamentally, the reasons why ferritic stainless steels are ferromagnetic while austenitic stainless steels are not are quantum-mechanical in nature"
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7th Jan 2021, 01:08 AM #10Senior Member
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Ok testing the memory here.
With stainless nickel content can vary between 0 and 40%. Chrome generally runs from 10 to30% depending on grade 2,3 or 4.
Being a lot of years since I made the stuff I am sure a new grade has appeared.
Basically the more nickel the less magnetic.
One of the choose jobs the new trainees got was to go out into the scrap yard with a magnet, grinder and a bottle of yellow liquid and sort out the stainless scrap. At 200 to 250 tonnes of stainless made a day you could be quite busy.
Tony
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7th Jan 2021, 03:49 PM #11Most Valued Member
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What were they making to get that sort of quantity of scrap????
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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7th Jan 2021, 05:55 PM #12Most Valued Member
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7th Jan 2021, 08:40 PM #13
That was copied from the article. Hence why it's in inverted commas, and italics.
I have NFI what it means either...
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7th Jan 2021, 08:48 PM #14Gear expert in training
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Quantum mechanics aside (because there's maybe a few hundred people on earth who could get into the details of electron behaviour and I'm definitely not one of them), it basically comes down to how the atoms are arranged in the metal. Different alloying elements (and different quantities of those elements) will affect the alignment and spacing of the magnetic atoms in the "grid" and change how magnetic fields pass through it.
VERY simplified, but that's the principle (unless I'm misunderstanding the article)
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7th Jan 2021, 10:37 PM #15Senior Member
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