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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Charlestown NSW
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    Default The great scrap metal dealer Stainless Steel scam

    I took a load of scrap metal to one of the local scrap dealers today. Only had a small amount of Stainless.

    The buggers (all the scrappies I've ever sold to - they are all the same) get the S/S and run over it with a magnet. If the magnet sticks you get "lot of steel in here" and you only get paid for the stuff that didn't stick.

    Even though S/S, depending on what it is, (Martensitic etc) can be magnetic. I bet the stuff that sticks doesn't go into the normal steel bin though. I only had a small amount so it wasn't worth arguing about but if you had a fair bit it would be worth doing your homework first.

    Too bad the hand held analysers are so exxy.

    peter

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    South of Adelaide
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    1,225

    Default

    Doesn't matter how much you have, we had 500kg of super duplex swarf, all went in the steel bin because it was magnetic.

  3. #3
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    Aug 2008
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    Cos when they remelt it I'd assume that it all goes in and they start from scratch. It's not worth their time and money to test, sort and store 20 different types of swarf.

    1020, 4140, EN36A, we even did a fancy 630 SS job, all in the steel bin.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Default

    Didn't do a lot of SS work but the only thing our scrappy cared about was how dense the scrap was. Think they paid about double per ton for something like a 44g drum with 750kg of 6.5mm x 0.5mm slugs. But that was 20 years ago, is anyone still melting scrap in au or is it all going for a boat ride?

  5. #5
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    Aug 2008
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    Did a quick google for metal recyclers, they don't all make it obvious but some do clearly state that they supply both local and overseas mills.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Albury
    Posts
    11

    Default

    The material constituent that gives stainless steel it's value is nickel. Generally speaking all stainless that is magnetic has little or no nickel in it. Some scrap dealers, where they are dealing with a known product, will pay a premium for higher grade austenitic (nickel grade) stainless steels, eg 316 or 310. But, when it comes to ferritic (magnetic) stainless the premium that the dealer can get for it is so little extra that it's not worth buggerising around with, so it just goes in with the steel.

    Yes, there have always been a lot of dodgy scrap dealers, but they're all probably a lot better than metal identification than you are. So tell me about it when you're getting ripped off on the weight, that's always been the big con.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
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    586

    Default

    I'm not up on the metallurgy of it, but if the magnetic elements are Iron, nickel, and Cobalt, why is a high nickel alloy not magnetic?
    I remember some faint details of face-centred cubic lattice in the atomic structure of metals as they share electrons, but not sure whether this is at play for an alloy with a higher overall magnetic element content...

    In short - Magnets: How do they work?!
    Is it a miracle? I Don't want to speak to a scientist.

  8. #8
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    Way above my pay grade, but...something something quantum mechanics Also face centred cube vs. body centred cube.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...gnets-work-on/

    Also, it's apparently non-magnetic because of the nickel. Go figure...
    https://www.greenwoodmagnetics.com/r...ainless-steel/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
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    Default

    Curse you, Einstein, you've bamboozled me again!!!

    "Fundamentally, the reasons why ferritic stainless steels are ferromagnetic while austenitic stainless steels are not are quantum-mechanical in nature"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
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    Default

    Ok testing the memory here.
    With stainless nickel content can vary between 0 and 40%. Chrome generally runs from 10 to30% depending on grade 2,3 or 4.
    Being a lot of years since I made the stuff I am sure a new grade has appeared.

    Basically the more nickel the less magnetic.

    One of the choose jobs the new trainees got was to go out into the scrap yard with a magnet, grinder and a bottle of yellow liquid and sort out the stainless scrap. At 200 to 250 tonnes of stainless made a day you could be quite busy.

    Tony

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Default

    What were they making to get that sort of quantity of scrap????
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Athelstone, SA 5076
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post

    "Fundamentally, the reasons why ferritic stainless steels are ferromagnetic while austenitic stainless steels are not are quantum-mechanical in nature"
    What drugs are you on...lol
    Now tell me in english...hahaha...but make sure its simple

  13. #13
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    Dec 2018
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    NSW
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    Default

    That was copied from the article. Hence why it's in inverted commas, and italics.
    I have NFI what it means either...

  14. #14
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    Quantum mechanics aside (because there's maybe a few hundred people on earth who could get into the details of electron behaviour and I'm definitely not one of them), it basically comes down to how the atoms are arranged in the metal. Different alloying elements (and different quantities of those elements) will affect the alignment and spacing of the magnetic atoms in the "grid" and change how magnetic fields pass through it.

    VERY simplified, but that's the principle (unless I'm misunderstanding the article)

  15. #15
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    Aug 2011
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    Perth, Western Australia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    What were they making to get that sort of quantity of scrap????
    Kryn
    Ingots from 6 to 25 tonne which were then rolled into slabs, sheet or what ever for latter production.

    Tony

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