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6th Oct 2020, 10:41 AM #1Senior Member
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Is there a WNMG holder to suit 12mm quick change?
I want to buy a WNMG carbide tool holder for my little south bend lathe but all the holders have a 16mm or larger shank, and my QCTP uses the 12mm holders.
Ive searched my heart out trying to find a holder for wnmg that goes into a 12mm post.
I wonder if there would be any real issue machining the bottom out of the holder to go from 16mm down to 12mm? Well I think 14mm will fit.
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6th Oct 2020, 03:17 PM #2Most Valued Member
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Initially I would say yes, I have one PWGNR 1215 H06 but on looking I can't find one.
They are a negative rake tool.
They will require a reasonable amount of H/P to work properly.
If you have the adjustment on your tool holder I would suggest tacking an equal amount off the top and bottom of the holder or more off the top than the bottom or machine some off the top of the tool itself, don't machine off the bottom.
With it being an older machine it probably won't have the H/P to cause any great effect.
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6th Oct 2020, 05:50 PM #3Gear expert in training
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Just out of curiosity, why specifically WNMG?
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6th Oct 2020, 07:52 PM #4Most Valued Member
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You can buy AXA tool holders with a 16mm slot. I think 250-101 XL is the part number.
Chris
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7th Oct 2020, 10:24 AM #5Senior Member
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Hm ok bugger I was hoping I could use them with my Lathe.
Good question. I am only a hobbiest and a very inexperienced one at that. So I guess the reasoning behind it was that I liked the look of the shape, the extra cutting tips to use and they are larger than my current tips. I currently use dcmt and ccmt in various holder (just a cheap kit) and while they are great, they do chip really easily.
So my thinking was that if nothing else I am adding some tooling to my collection.
Perfect. That is the solution that would be better than machining the holder down.
Thanks for the replies.
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7th Oct 2020, 12:39 PM #6Gear expert in training
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If it's just because they're chipping, there are 3 things that might fix the problem without buying a new style: check your speed, check your feed, buy good quality inserts.
If those are wrong, the W shape will just give you chipped inserts that cost more.
We run DCMT and CCMT all day at work with no issues
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7th Oct 2020, 12:58 PM #7Senior Member
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My feeds and speeds are no doubt just a guess at best as I do not have the education or experience yet. I admit I have only bought the cheap ebay/aliexpress inserts so perhaps I should try some better quality inserts.
Can you provide a link to a tried and proven quality insert so I dont waste money buying blind?
Thanks again for the help
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7th Oct 2020, 02:04 PM #8Senior Member
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Just on the rake angle. Can someone school me a little on this.
These are the inserts I currently use......
s-l1600 (11).jpg
s-l1600 (10).jpg
And these are the ones I want to try.
s-l1600 (12).jpg
So is the rake angle the top angle? They all look to have be very similar in that area?
And those ccmt inserts, shouldnt I be able to get a holder so I can use the other two cutting edges?
Thanks for any help.
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7th Oct 2020, 05:16 PM #9Most Valued Member
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The rake is defined by the tool holder. The picture attached explains it better than I can
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7th Oct 2020, 05:28 PM #10Gear expert in training
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Download FSWizard (Andriod, iOS or PC), it will give you a good place to start with feed/speed. The cheap inserts are not always terrible, so see if that helps with your current inserts before you go buying the expensive stuff.
The rake is a combination of the insert and the holder. The WNMG holder itself is negative (it holds the insert at an angle, unlike CCMT holders which generally hold the insert flat), but you can get inserts that make it positive.
And those ccmt inserts, shouldnt I be able to get a holder so I can use the other two cutting edges?
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7th Oct 2020, 10:07 PM #11Diamond Member
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FWIW I buy CCMT inserts and tools from AliExpress, I wear out the inserts they don't chip prematurely.
I've settled on these guys and bought from them for a few years, there are lots of other suppliers to choose from.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/225...Head_7862915.0
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7th Oct 2020, 10:23 PM #12Most Valued Member
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I found this page really good in helping me decipher the Insert designation codes. Insert Designation Chart - provides ANSI and ISO designation code definitions for carbide insert shapes, relief angles, tolerances, chipbreaker codes, hole types, size values, thickness values, radius values, wiper lead angle, wiper clearance angle, cutti
From what little I know, low horsepower machines are better off sticking to positive rake tooling and most older/low HP machines struggle to reach the speed/feed point where carbide really comes alive.
I would second the recommendation of FS wizard (I use it myself) and also the use of decent quality inserts.
If you are a person that loves tech info (too much is never enough), most insert manufacturers have downloadable catalogues which give feed and sped ranges for their tooling and inserts.
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7th Oct 2020, 10:28 PM #13Gear expert in training
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Another insert decoder with illustrations Turning Inserts Identification | MITSUBISHI MATERIALS CORPORATION
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8th Oct 2020, 09:27 AM #14Senior Member
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Thanks very much for the help gents.
A lot of the charts are over my head at this stage but like anything, the more I learn the more itll make sense.
I am 100% certain I am not even coming close to the speeds required for the carbide tips according to the FS wizard. I dont even think my lathe can get to those speeds. I can put it on the fastest pulley and crank the hertz up on the motor to get to around 2000rpm but the old girl is at her limit at that point. (im going to the shed now to see how fast I can get it to go!)
I really need to concentrate more on HSS and experimenting with different grinds I think.
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8th Oct 2020, 09:57 AM #15Gear expert in training
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2000 rpm is perfectly fine, our old Colchester tops out at 1600 and works with carbide. You can adjust the max rpm in fswizard in the Overrides tab so it doesn't spit out useless numbers.
Forget HSS for general turning, it's not the 60s anymore
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