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  1. #16
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    Just looking at that, seems really weird the way the 'III' is in the middle... Does the leadscrew actually rotate if you select 'III', or is it a neutral position?

    I see it says Herbert Metalmaster, is that what HAFCO used to trade under in NZ? Where did you find the AL330A model number, I can't see it in the photo?

  2. #17
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    Lead screw still rotates in 111 position, the al330-a model is from the limited owners manual I got with the machine. Manual is very brief and isn't much help at all. Herbert was the agent at the time, two big players in NZ now are Machinery House and Chevpac.
    I have approached them but they cannot help and Herbert now doesn't exist. Like you say, I think my best hope is to post more pictures and maybe someone will have the same machine. It's been a good machine, I have restored 6 vintage bikes on it over the years.

  3. #18
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    Its interesting that the Herbert Metalmaster logo looks almost identical to the Hafco Metalmaster logo...

    I don't suppose the manual has exploded diagrams or anything? The 'last resort' way of working it out is to pull the cover off the gearbox and start counting teeth, and then work it out from there, but that's rather painful...

    Off chance, stupid question, and probably not the case given the 3 position secondary lever, but the drive keys are in place in the change gears, one hasn't gone walkabout when you changed them at some point?

  4. #19
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    I think I will remove cover this weekend and check gears out. See more photo in my album.

  5. #20
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    Your machine is definitely natively metric. If you measured at about 8tpi, that would mean it's a 3mm pitch. So imperial threads will require use of the 120/127 compound gear.

    Looking at the AL346v manual, which was the metric machine, I'm getting the feeling it might actually be a 4mm pitch leadscrew on that machine. Could be wrong, but I just can't get its threading dial numbers to correlate to yours, and if the leadscrew pitch is the same, there should be some obvious mathematical relationship. Plus the error of not having the compounding gear in the setup wouldn't be as big as you're getting. Would make some sense, as my very quick (and probably wrong maths) suggests that while 24 - 48, A4 and MII should give 1.2mm pitch (or 21.17tpi) according to the AL346v chart, you said you were getting 26tpi. My math suggests the error of 4mm vs 3mm pitch would give you about 26.67tpi...

    Of course that's all assuming the internal ratios of the box are the same. Maybe, maybe not. I'm trying to find a manual or chart for a metric 3mm pitch CQ6230 of any description to compare now.

    *EDIT* I'd have to say though, don't trust my maths... Just for giggles, try setting it up as per the AL346v manual, and see what happens, as every chart I can find for 5 postion levers is the same as that, and uses all the same gears you have. I assume you used the AL335 chart before?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    Your machine is definitely natively metric. If you measured at about 8tpi, that would mean it's a 3mm pitch. So imperial threads will require use of the 120/127 compound gear.

    Looking at the AL346v manual, which was the metric machine, I'm getting the feeling it might actually be a 4mm pitch leadscrew on that machine. Could be wrong, but I just can't get its threading dial numbers to correlate to yours, and if the leadscrew pitch is the same, there should be some obvious mathematical relationship. Plus the error of not having the compounding gear in the setup wouldn't be as big as you're getting. Would make some sense, as my very quick (and probably wrong maths) suggests that while 24 - 48, A4 and MII should give 1.2mm pitch (or 21.17tpi) according to the AL346v chart, you said you were getting 26tpi. My math suggests the error of 4mm vs 3mm pitch would give you about 26.67tpi...

    Of course that's all assuming the internal ratios of the box are the same. Maybe, maybe not. I'm trying to find a manual or chart for a metric 3mm pitch CQ6230 of any description to compare now.

    *EDIT* I'd have to say though, don't trust my maths... Just for giggles, try setting it up as per the AL346v manual, and see what happens, as every chart I can find for 5 postion levers is the same as that, and uses all the same gears you have. I assume you used the AL335 chart before?
    I'm glad you are better at maths then me!, yes, I used the AL335 chart before, I will try the AL346v manual and see what happens.
    Will keep you posted, cheers. I will check that leadscrew again to confirm if it is metric.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivandjm View Post
    I'm glad you are better at maths then me!, yes, I used the AL335 chart before, I will try the AL346v manual and see what happens.
    Will keep you posted, cheers. I will check that leadscrew again to confirm if it is metric.
    It's definitely metric. If it was imperial, the threading dial chart would have TPI threads rather than mm threads, and only use a single drive gear on the bottom (yours should have 3 jammed in there to select between by the table, as do all the metric threading dials). The cross slide markings confirm that, the imperial measurement is some awkward fraction.

    I have to say, I'm pretty convinced that "III" marking is a red herring. Looking at the gears you have, the layout of the dials - just too much coincidence going on, why on earth would they need a III position, when every other machine manages to get the same pitches with the same gears without it. I also came across a manual for a metric machine that specified exactly the gears you have as the included change gears - right down to not including the 38 tooth gear. Other machines with different counts of lever positions use a completely different set of change gears.

    If this doesn't work, I'd be really inclined to suspect that a key is missing from a gear, or that one of the selectors isn't selecting properly inside the box - or even maybe that the change gears are marked wrong as to the number of teeth on them. Just my gut, it just doesn't seem to make any sense otherwise... If it does come to pulling the front off the box, I'll be pretty interested to see what that (I, II, III) lever actually does...

  8. #23
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    I measured the lead screw and it is 3 mm pitch, the threading dial also has 3 gears as you say. First thing I will do is pull the cover off the gearbox and check everything is ok in there and the gears are selecting correct.
    The manual that you found for the metric machine, does it have a threading chart that I could try ? Otherwise I will check the gearbox, hopefully find something amiss, and will try the AL346V chart.
    I will also double check all the change gears to make sure they are marked correctly. Have a good feeling we will nail this soon!
    Cheers again and I will keep you posted.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivandjm View Post
    I measured the lead screw and it is 3 mm pitch, the threading dial also has 3 gears as you say. First thing I will do is pull the cover off the gearbox and check everything is ok in there and the gears are selecting correct.
    The manual that you found for the metric machine, does it have a threading chart that I could try ? Otherwise I will check the gearbox, hopefully find something amiss, and will try the AL346V chart.
    I will also double check all the change gears to make sure they are marked correctly. Have a good feeling we will nail this soon!
    Cheers again and I will keep you posted.
    Any other machine that uses 5 position levers uses the same gears you have, and has the same chart as the AL346... I haven't yet found one different. And as I mentioned, really I've stopped expecting to - there is no logical reason why they would have given your machine the change gears it has, the lever layout, and then gone and given it a completely different internal gearing to make life difficult for themselves, and have to manufacture a different set of parts. I mean, anything is possible, but....

    I've included a chart off an Axminster CQ6230A sold in the UK so you can see what I mean - it's only the imperial part, but it's identical to the AL346. Even all the imperial variants (like the AL335 and others) the charts are the same, with the obvious exception of the location of the 120/127 gear.

    I must be wrong about the leadscrew pitch on the AL346, it must be 3mm. I think its actually a CQ6232 which from what I can tell is nothing more than a slightly bigger CQ6230. The threading dial might have a different number of divisons to yours or something, or maybe I'm just missing an obvious mathematical correlation.

    If I were doing it, before pulling the box at this point I would start by double checking the count on the change gears, and make sure the locating keys are in place. Check that the shear pins are in place on the leadscrew and appear intact. Then I'd rotate all the selectors fully in both directions (A-E) and (1-5), (I-II) and make sure I could feel each position engaging, and that the pointer actually lines up properly. My AL335 had stick on pointers, and one was kind of off to one side by a bit. Shouldn't be the case with your screw on pointers, but at this point it's time to really check the basics.

    Next, I'd set up for the 20tpi thread as per the AL346 chart, and just try it out. If that fails, I would then set up for a 3mm pitch - 48-120-24, A2, MI, and see what happens. If that doesn't give you the 3mm leadscrew pitch, then I'd say it's time to start drain the gearbox oil and pull the cover. Check the drained oil carefully, and watch out when removing the cover for anything dropping out the bottom, or sitting loose in the bottom of the casing. Possibly a grub screw has vibrated out, or a roll pin is broken.

    And if you still find nothing wrong, then it's probably time to start counting gears, and cross reference them to parts diagrams from other machines - but as I said, I just can't see this being the case. The Chinese are not known, in this class of machine, for innovating. They all copy the same machine, and vary the castings slightly to make them all look different, or tack an extra option on here or there.
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  10. #25
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    Good info, thanks again for your help, I will do as you suggest, probably in the weekend.
    Cheers.

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