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Thread: Alternative to Fusion 360?
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21st Sep 2020, 07:47 PM #16Golden Member
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I bought the student version of TurboCAD 2016 Platinum Pro for my kid which is at a significant discount - quite affordable. AFAIK there is no time limit on it. I decided against Fusion 360 as these changes (and more to come I suspect) were inevitable.
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21st Sep 2020, 07:55 PM #17Diamond Member
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I haven't used Fusion 360 for a long time, but when I did, it was a really impressive piece of software to be able to use for free.
Of all the changes, I think the only one that will have any impact for my very intermittent use is the lack of rapids. That could make some jobs very slow to execute.
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22nd Sep 2020, 11:18 PM #18New Member
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so, export to STEP format seems the biggest limitation I've listened to; no other way to get a design with dimensional accuracy out to another format (app), as all other export formats are not as accurate. So if you were using a stp export to pull into something else to run CAM on that was highly toleranced, you may have issues... but for me (so far only timber designs) I don't think that'll stress me.
The 5 document "active" thing is also interesting since you can change what your 10 active items are and can still use them as "locked" components and not edit them. Could be complex but seems like it may be OK again in my simple world I never have that many things really active - so long as marking something inactive doesn't preclude you in the future marking it active again I can't see an issue.
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23rd Sep 2020, 06:26 PM #19Golden Member
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So are STEP files are more accurate than Gcode, I wasn't aware of that, it probably shouldn't concern me as the closest thing I have to CNC is a 3d printer and I have only ever used the export to Gcode function in Fusion360.
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23rd Sep 2020, 11:21 PM #20Senior Member
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STEP is a model file format. It's made of triangles I think.
G Code is not a model format. It is toolpath instructions. It does not contain direct information about the model.
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24th Sep 2020, 01:36 AM #21Golden Member
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I hope this doesn't sound too basic as I'm just a newbie with this stuff but my understanding was that STEP files are to 3D what DXF files are to 2D, a step file made by Solidworks can be read by Fusion360 provided that Fusion can handle the number of faces/triangles.
While waiting for my 3D printer to arrive a few months back I read up on 3D printing, I thought that after I had finalised my design I would need to output a STEP file and then convert that file to Gcode for the printer, I found that Fusion can output Gcode directly - does that mean if I miss out the STEP code part do I lose some precision/accuracy ? - not that it really matters that much with 3D printers but just curious.
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24th Sep 2020, 07:52 AM #22Philomath in training
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As always the devil is in the detail (in this case, who wrote the code to what standard) but you should not lose precision if Fusion can output Gcode directly, rather than go through converting to a STEP file and then writing Gcode. It is possible that it may even be better, although the precision that STEP files work to compared to the precision of a 3D printer means that while theoretically better in reality it probably does not matter at all.
MIchael
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24th Sep 2020, 09:08 AM #23Most Valued Member
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24th Sep 2020, 03:02 PM #24I break stuff...
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I've got the feeling there is a little bit of confusion going on here...
STEP or STP files, the STL format, and Gcode are all very different things.
STEP/STP is a form of solid body file, can be used by almost all professional (and non) CAD software, and while it doesn't save design history when exported in this format, is pretty easy to deal with and modify.
STL is a triangulated mesh file. The triangles it's made up of can be viewed in something like Meshmixer or Blender, but it's an absolute pig to edit in any normal CAD software. Fusion tends to just spit the dummy if the model is too detailed, and refuses to convert it to a solid body. STL is more of a format that might be used for creating 3d objects for use in a video game for example (not exactly sure what it was historically used for, if anything), but it has also become the default format for 3d printing files.
Gcode is literally just a map for the printer (or whatever) to follow. It has no information about the shape of the object, it simply tells the printer "move from here to there via over there, putting out this much filament along the way." "Now, lower temperature, start cooling fan and go here, and here....." Running a .GCO or .GCODE file on your machine that someone else has created is a recipe for crashes. For example, there might be a line in the gcode "move to X:500, Y:200" - but your machine only has an X travel of 400 total. Or they may have generated GCODE for a 0.8mm nozzle, and if you're only running a 0.4mm, that's not going to go well. There may be some way to convert a .gco back into some crude representation of the orginal model, but it would be far from ideal.
The key difference here is that while a STEP file represents a circle with a circle, correctly radiused and located, in an STL file this circle is made up of the edges of a bunch of triangles. How many triangles depends on the settings when the STL was generated - it could be thousands, or it could be twelve. And you'll see that in some models you grab off Thingiverse etc - 'circular' holes that are actually more like dodecadons. So in this case, the circle is represented by twelve straight lines. If you had a high resolution STL where there were 6,000 triangles forming the edge, the circle would consist of 6,000 straight lines.
Now, onto the discussion - as far as I'm aware, no slicer for printing natively handles STEP/STP files. I just had a look in Slic3r, and certainly can't see any way to import anything other than STL, and a few other variants of mesh models (OBJ, 3MF etc).
I didn't realise Fusion had the capacity to actually generate printer Gcode, but I found it there under the manufacture tab - couldn't be bothered setting it up with all the info (looks painful) to see how well it works, but having a bit of a skim through the settings, it looks a bit limited compared to something like Slic3r/Cura/Simplify3d etc. Probably not a great issue if you don't play with the advanced settings in any of those, but I often have to fiddle with some of the checkboxes in Slic3r to get a nice result on certain things with thin walls particularly. It also looks like it may possibly convert to .3mf as an intermediate format, which is kind of like STL but with supposedly better modifying abilities, and more detailed information. I've always just hit "Tools - Make - 3dprint", with refinement at 'high', which generates an STL file that I then slice with Slic3r.
So for guys just using it for 3d printing, nothing much has changed. Fusion will still output STL files, which your slicer can then take as input, apply your printers parameters and your chosen print settings, and output the GCODE as a machine level set of instructions. Or directly Gcode if you want, I guess. The only reason it might cause you hassles is if you want to send your design to someone else, who wants to modify it for their purpose - this is where you would use STEP. STL should be considered a "final output" step, and if the model changes, you would edit the base design, then re-export to STL for your slicer - STL is just too painful to modify unless you're doing 'artistic' type stuff anyway. What I'm not sure about is whether Fusion will still allow the IMPORT of STEP files...
For guys who are running routers, and using different software to create the CAM toolpaths, or doing more modeling operations in a different program, yes, the loss of the STEP format is going to kill Fusion for you. While the nature of STL files doesn't make a lot of difference for printing with the viscosity of the filament, I'd imagine the faceting effect could show up like crazy if creating a rounded feature with a ball nose endmill or something.
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24th Sep 2020, 09:50 PM #25Golden Member
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I did not find it overly hard or painful in getting Fusion360 to output Gcode for a specific 3D printer however, I have nothing to compare it to as it is the only way I have ever done it - possibly there may be easier ways to generate a Gcode file.
From memory
click the design tab and select manufacture
from the new toolbar select setup and then new setup
from the setup dialog window select additive
where it says machine click on 'select' a new window opens with additive machines (3D printers) to choose from, if you are lucky yours will be there I chose Autodesk Generic first time around.
The window changes and the print settings can now be edited and you can change temp, nozzle size, and the height of each layer - possibly a few other things I don't fully understand so I leave them - once you are happy click ok to close - if you need to edit the settings right click the setup branch on the tree at the left side of the screen and click on edit - if you stuff it right up you can delete it with the same right click and start again.
If every thing is all good select actions from toolbar and click generate - this I think generates a toolpath - if you expand the setup tree on the left side you should see your printer the settings and the additive toolpath.
If it's all good with no errors go back to actions on the top toolbar and click post process - another window opens where you can choose the gcode file name, save location etc once saved then transfer it to your printer. I have Visual Net Suite on my PC and once the gcode is saved Visual Studio Code opens a window and shows the gcode - it can be edited and re-saved if you know what you are doing (I don't).
You do need a CPS file for your printer initially I used the Generic Autodesk file it worked fine but I was able to find one for my printer - however I could not see any difference in the prints.
If you do a search of youtube there is video on how it's done you may find it helpful.
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24th Sep 2020, 10:08 PM #26Most Valued Member
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24th Sep 2020, 10:12 PM #27Most Valued Member
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27th Sep 2020, 04:33 PM #28Senior Member
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Autodesk have now said that the personal use version will continue to export STEP files.
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27th Sep 2020, 08:16 PM #29
As to the original question:
I also am a satisfied user of freecad.
Peter
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