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  1. #1
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    Default Evolution Rage 2 or BS-4A Horizontal Bandsaw

    Looking for a bit of advice. I would like to buy one of the above for home workshop use and am unable to decide what would be best for me. From reading forums the downside of the Rage is the noise level (although I have never heard in person) and the bandsaw is the overall footprint. Has anyone used both and if so what would you recommend?

    Cheers,
    Stu.

  2. #2
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    Depends on what you're cutting. Tubing for fabrication (SHS, RHS, round tube) or solid stock for machining?

    I don't have a Rage, but I do have a Brobo knockoff cold saw. If I'm working with RHS/Pipe, I use that, it permanently has a fine tooth blade on it for that purpose. Convenient and easy to do mitres with the pivoting head. Anything thick, or solid goes in the bandsaw, because I can't be bothered hanging off the handle of the cold saw for too long. The Rage is probably faster here, although I don't know about for solid sections of steel - I do know they're supposed to rip through aluminium nicely though.

    That's not to say the bandsaw won't cut tubing, but I keep it set up with a coarse blade for the solid stock, and haven't bothered buying a fine pitch blade for it given I have the cold saw that I feel gives a nicer and probably bit straighter cut.

    And yes, I'm sure they'll be loud as hell - I'm yet to hear any of the high speed methods of cutting metal that wasn't. Nothing like the scream of drop saws cutting aluminium extrusion on a construction site - especially in an enclosed area. Think circular saw, but with much extra high pitch squealing from the cutting action. Lots of ear protection required, not a night time activity if you like your neighbours. Bandsaw just quietly rumbles away, can run it anytime. Even the cold saw is louder than the bandsaw, although the blade only runs about 50rpm, that big HSS disc tends to ring a fair bit when it's actually cutting.

    Other point I guess is how much are the blades for the Rage vs the cost of bandsaw blades? I'd guess there is a fair difference there...

  3. #3
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    For my money and based on personal experience of bandsaws, I'd pick the bandsaw hands down. Let me say up front that I have never used that particular model of bandsaw and my experience is with larger models with inbuilt coolant pumps. A bandsaw will work away quietly and accurately cut larger stock than the Evolution saw and does not throw hot, sharp chips all over the shop. I believe there are quite a few threads on this forum about improvements that owners have made to their BS4A machines. If the budget will stretch, a machine with inbuilt coolant would be a quantum leap.
    The BS4A has the ability to be used vertically, which could be a handy feature for freehand cutting.
    I cut my teeth on abrasive drop saws and unfortunately used them at three employers over a 25 odd year period and if I never use another of the noisy damn things it will be too soon, (yes, I do realise that the Evolution is not an abrasive saw, but it's still in the noisy machine class IMHO). I now use either Bandsaws or Cold Saws (Brobo) as my weapons of choice.

  4. #4
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    Thanks J&H,
    Yes I will mainly be cutting tubes and flat bars (don't have any metalworking machines...yet) Is your bandsaw like the cheaper one I was looking at? Time for cut is not an issue for me and I probably have enough space just need a bit of clearing in the shed. Just wondered how accurate a cheap bandsaw would be. Rage blades look to be about $200 for a stainless and about $100 for the standard one that comes with it. Haven't got a clue about metal bandsaw blades. Woodworking ones are made locally to me and easily accessible though.

  5. #5
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    Hi Stu, Guys,

    Go for the bandsaw ! I bought an unloved 6X4 one and refurbished it. I wish I had bought one years ago, you don't realise just how versatile they are until you have one.

    JMTPW
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  6. #6
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    One is noisy, spark generating beast that sprays swarf all over your shed and you have to watch it while it's working. The other makes no noise or sparks, the swarf ends up in a pile under the blade, and while its cutting you can go do something else. BS blades are cheap but its worth getting a bimetal one which your saw doctor will know about as they usually last a lot longer. Make sure you use a lighter pressure for the first few cuts on a new blade.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoobydale View Post
    Thanks J&H,
    Yes I will mainly be cutting tubes and flat bars (don't have any metalworking machines...yet) Is your bandsaw like the cheaper one I was looking at? Time for cut is not an issue for me and I probably have enough space just need a bit of clearing in the shed. Just wondered how accurate a cheap bandsaw would be. Rage blades look to be about $200 for a stainless and about $100 for the standard one that comes with it. Haven't got a clue about metal bandsaw blades. Woodworking ones are made locally to me and easily accessible though.
    Mines a bigger version, a 7x12. Same basic thing, just bigger with coolant and hydraulic cylinder to control the downfeed. If I were looking for a bandsaw to do tube work and didn't have anything already, I'd most likely spend a bit extra and go for either the BS5V or BS5S (probably the S, personally, and wait for their sales, think November?), purely for the swivel head (the included vertical table on the S and the bit bigger capacity over the 4A is even better). If you never or rarely cut mitres, not necessary, but my cold saw has the same setup as the swivel head bandsaws for cutting mitres. So much nicer to just unlock the head, swing it round to where you want, and lock it back up. Yes, you can do mitre cuts with a regular one, but I couldn't be bothered getting out the protractor and stuffing around unbolting the jaws and moving them wherever.

    You can of course make angle blocks to use in the bandsaw jaws as well, but I tend to do things on the cold saw that need 'odd' angles. Sometimes I'm just marking a tube based on where it fits, then swing the head till it aligns with the angle I've marked (building exhausts out of mandrel bends tends to create this workflow...)

    I see H&F also sell blades to suit the 5S for $30 in bi metal, or $12 in carbon steel. You'll likely beat their prices on both saw and blades elsewhere, although worth noting both the 5S and 5V are made in Taiwan, rather than mainland China, so might be a bit better quality than other options (4A is likely mainland China given it doesn't say otherwise). You'd have to fondle them to see.

    As far as accuracy, I understand even the 4A can be very good, with some tweaking. How much tweaking depends on luck of the draw, of course. Being Taiwanese, in theory the 5 series might need less tweaking. No personal experience with any of the others, only my old 7x12 of unknown provenance.

  8. #8
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    Bandsaws can be very temperamental things. Not cut straight or blade jamming and coming off for no reason with lots of hair tearing out to find out why. But then they can cut bigger material.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

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    One point to bear in mind when it comes to swivel head bandsaws, is that they generally have notches in the base to allow the blade to enter when making the cut. These notches are machined at the common angles such as 15, 22.5, 30 and 45 degrees and normally work fine for most situations, but should you want to cut a 37 degree angle or some other odd beast, you will almost certainly be cutting a nice groove in your machine base. If you do a lot of angle work, then the swivel head and it's greater cost is worth consideration, if not, then I'd stick to a fixed head model.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Bandsaws can be very temperamental things. Not cut straight or blade jamming and coming off for no reason with lots of hair tearing out to find out why. But then they can cut bigger material.
    Not having a go at you by any stretch, but that is almost word for word the argument my first employer used to justify his decision to not utilise a bandsaw. I don't know if I've just been lucky, but in roughly 20 years of bandsaw usage, some of which were well used and very second hand machines, the only run off difficulties I've had have been due to knackered blades and even then they need to be pretty bad to cause much drama. I've never had a blade come off and only one jam when a tiny offcut became wedged in the works.

  11. #11
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    I have a horizontal bandsaw and a carbide metal saw similar to that Evolution unit. For most cuts I got to the carbide saw - it’s much faster than the bandsaw, the cut is as clean, if not cleaner, and it’s easier to keep the machine cutting square. The downsides are that it is noisier, but not as loud as an abrasive cut-off saw, and you need to be careful to apply enough down-pressure when cutting through thicker sections to ensure the teeth are cutting, not rubbing.

    I mainly use the bandsaw for tricky cuts, however I find it a lot harder to set up for square cuts.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    One point to bear in mind when it comes to swivel head bandsaws, is that they generally have notches in the base to allow the blade to enter when making the cut. These notches are machined at the common angles such as 15, 22.5, 30 and 45 degrees and normally work fine for most situations, but should you want to cut a 37 degree angle or some other odd beast, you will almost certainly be cutting a nice groove in your machine base. If you do a lot of angle work, then the swivel head and it's greater cost is worth consideration, if not, then I'd stick to a fixed head model.
    The 5S appears to do its mitreing over thin air from what I can see, but if not, stick a piece of 1/2" plywood underneath what you're cutting? Should be enough for the blade to still be clear of the base when it's through the stock?

  13. #13
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    Hi Guys,

    Having read through this thread and admittedly not had a bandsaw for very long, I'm of the opinion that if you spend the time and effort to set the bandsaw up properly they will consistently and repeatedly produce cuts that are for all intents dead square and virtually vertical.

    I can cut a piece of 2" by 3 " inch solid steel bar within 10 thou of vertical over 3 " inches and dead square horizontally. Some of you may remember that I had to buy a new support bracket for mine. Well if you take a look the bracket has slots for the fastening bolts. This bracket can be used to set the arm and thus the blade truly vertical, as well as using the blade guides. Once the blade is set true using the guides the support bracket can be tapped with a hammer to move it slightly then the bolts tightened up. It effectively removes the play in the arm.

    As far as cutting angles, I just use a wooden wedge to get the angle that I want.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

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    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Bandsaws can be very temperamental things. Not cut straight or blade jamming and coming off for no reason with lots of hair tearing out to find out why. But then they can cut bigger material.
    Interesting you should mention about the blade coming off. My BS was old and well (ab)used when I got it 10 years ago and it used to often drop its blade For no apparent reason when I was using carbon steel bands but since changing to bimetal bands a few years ago the band has only come off a couple of times since?

  15. #15
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    I have both an Evolution saw and a little bs4a and I think Bob has summed it up well below.

    If I have to do a lot of cuts in a hurry I use the Evolution, but it is very noisy, sprays swarf all over me and the shed and to be honest i cringe everytime I drop the blade into the work peice but it does a great job at cutting fast.

    For the most part I use my trusty little bandsaw with a bi metal blade. I can use it at all hours of the night (I am on acreage so I am only annoying my own family with the evolution), it always cuts straight enough for my use and it is so much nicer to use than the evolution. It is my go to metal cutting machine.


    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    One is noisy, spark generating beast that sprays swarf all over your shed and you have to watch it while it's working. The other makes no noise or sparks, the swarf ends up in a pile under the blade, and while its cutting you can go do something else. BS blades are cheap but its worth getting a bimetal one which your saw doctor will know about as they usually last a lot longer. Make sure you use a lighter pressure for the first few cuts on a new blade.

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