Thread: Hammering HSS steel.

Can HSS steel in its soft state
Be penned ie
What’s it deformation characteristics like.?
Will it yield like mild steel,? or is more prone to flaking an splitting.?

I would like to use some for a base of a hand plane,with the sides dovetail into the steel.
Using a double dovetail.
Like so.


I’ve started my first hand plane making project, an am already over using scrap mild steel with all its pits an defects.
Knowing that I will have too hand grind(lap them out)
An would like to use some precision ground steel for the base.
Saving a Ton of work, I already have my badge of honour for hand lapping old planes flat.
I have no need,or desire to repeat that unnecessarily.
In the sizes I want an considering I’m not wanting to go out shopping much these days plus I’m in no great hurry,
I Can have something like this delivered!!.





Cheers Matt

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Can HSS steel in its soft state
Be penned ie
What’s it deformation characteristics like.?
Will it yield like mild steel,? or is more prone to flaking an splitting.?

Sorry nothing like mild steel.
Most HSS comes in a prehardened state (if you belt it may shatter) and heat treating HSS is a PITA and requires a well regulated temperature controlled furnace.

Annealing: Heat to 1600°-1650° F, then cool in a furnace at 30°-40° F per hour to 900° F. Air cool. Hardness will be 241 Brinell maximum.
(1650-900)/35 = 30 hours!!!

The you have to reharden the stuff! once again a well regulated temperature controlled furnace.

Hardening: Preheat slowly to 1350°-1550° F and hold until thoroughly heated. Next, heat rapidly to 2150°-2275° F. Total heating time varies from a few minutes to a maximum of 15 minutes depending on the size of the piece. Oil quenching is recommended for developing full hardness, although air quenching and quenching in hot salt can also be done. When the material has reached a temperature of 150° to 200° F in the quench, temper immediately. The best tempering range is 1000°- 1100° F. Double tempering is recommended.

HSS is fine to make basic WW tools as is, cut/shape using abrasive disc and grinder. Its pretty hard too over cook it.
IMG_5333.jpg

The rough looking chisel second from the left is a HSS blade.
Teh other two blADED TOOLS ARE Made from detempered old files.
Tools2.jpg

Originally Posted by BobL

Sorry nothing like mild steel.
Most HSS comes in a prehardened state (if you belt it may shatter) and heat treating HSS is a PITA and requires a well regulated temperature controlled furnace.

Annealing: Heat to 1600°-1650° F, then cool in a furnace at 30°-40° F per hour to 900° F. Air cool. Hardness will be 241 Brinell maximum.
(1650-900)/35 = 30 hours!!!

The you have to reharden the stuff! once again a well regulated temperature controlled furnace.

Hardening: Preheat slowly to 1350°-1550° F and hold until thoroughly heated. Next, heat rapidly to 2150°-2275° F. Total heating time varies from a few minutes to a maximum of 15 minutes depending on the size of the piece. Oil quenching is recommended for developing full hardness, although air quenching and quenching in hot salt can also be done. When the material has reached a temperature of 150° to 200° F in the quench, temper immediately. The best tempering range is 1000°- 1100° F. Double tempering is recommended.

HSS is fine to make basic WW tools as is, cut/shape using abrasive disc and grinder. Its pretty hard too over cook it.
IMG_5333.jpg

The rough looking chisel second from the left is a HSS blade.
Teh other two blADED TOOLS ARE Made from detempered old files.
Tools2.jpg

Thanks for the reply Bob,but why would I need to re harden the HSS,
It would work fine as a plane sole in its soft state.

But saying that the big picture is just finding some precision ground steel.

Cheers Matt.

Finding it isn't hard, just do a google for "ground flat bar"
First result: https://www.edconsteel.com.au/store/...round/flat-bar

You gotta buy a 500mm length though

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Finding it isn't hard, just do a google for "ground flat bar"
First result: https://www.edconsteel.com.au/store/...round/flat-bar

You gotta buy a 500mm length though

Elan
I did find them,but thought they might be too pricey,
Maybe I should just give them a call tomorrow.

Cheers Matt.

Only way to find out

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Thanks for the reply Bob,but why would I need to re harden the HSS,
It would work fine as a plane sole in its soft state.

If you want to soften it so it can be beaten without it breaking then it definitely won't be hard enough to last for long as a wood blade so you will have to reharden it.
Any steel that can be hand beaten into shape is usually not hard enough to use as a wood blade.

Originally Posted by BobL

If you want to soften it so it can be beaten without it breaking then it definitely won't be hard enough to last for long as a wood blade so you will have to reharden it.

He's not using it as a blade, he's using it for the sole

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Thanks for the reply Bob,but why would I need to re harden the HSS,
It would work fine as a plane sole in its soft state.

But saying that the big picture is just finding some precision ground steel.

Cheers Matt.

Hi Matt,

Here in the UK it would be "Gauge plate" that you would need to look for. It is usually ground to a precise size with a fairly good finish, actually it would make very good plane sole plates. It is also easily hardenable to about 55-60 RW if you need to.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Elan
I did find them,but thought they might be too pricey,
Maybe I should just give them a call tomorrow.

Cheers Matt.

Gauge plate i the UK is sold in 13" inch lengths ! Though you can pay a premium for longer lengths.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

He's not using it as a blade, he's using it for the sole

It's the same problem if he's trying to peen it for dovetails.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Can HSS steel in its soft state
What’s it deformation characteristics like.?
Will it yield like mild steel,? or is more prone to flaking an splitting.?

Hi Simplicity

Welcome to the MetalWork forums

HSS is used for plane blades. HSS is not a good use for a Plane sole.

There was a bloke, a Derek Cohen from Perth who was on the Woodwork Forums all the time who makes his own planes -among other WW tools.

Derek has his on site about making woodworkers tools. He has an email contact on that site.

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/index.html

An email to him may likely yield some better information.

Grahame

G'day Matt,
First let me make clear that I'm no wood worker and am more than happy with my old Stanley plane so please factor that in before considering my response.
I may be missing something but I reckon starting with a block of quality cast iron and machining away anything that's not a plane body would be a better approach.
Every plane I've ever seen either had a wood or cast iron body, I'm pretty sure HSS would be overkill.
I don't think a plane sole needs to be particularly hard just flat and CI is ideally suited to being made flat with simple tools right out of the box.
As much as I like the idea of dovetailing HSS I'm pretty sure any flatness present in the original stock would be absent by the time everything was assembled and you're back to lapping or surface grinding.
If having a brass body is your preference then you could still go with dovetailing on a CI sole then simply scrape it flat, much easier than using HSS.
A few members on here past and present have made planes from CI so hopefully they will add more wisdom but these are my uneducated thoughts.
Cheers,
Greg.