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4th Jul 2020, 02:09 PM #1Member
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Afforable er collets that are worth a having
I have recently purchased a Ajax brand bridgeport style mill. Still in the process of organising 3 phase power for it atm.
Right now I am slowly aquiring tooling for and er collets have come to my attention so I am wondering what other people's experience has been with collets supplied the more affordable suppliers. It seems a the concense is that the cheapest of the are rubbish bin anchor, but how about Aussie, M&G and alike.
I have no experience with er's because the mill I used years ago had Weldon style tooling. Er looks to be a lot more versatile.
What sizes do people recommend for a beginner, I'm thinking er 16 for small tooling and 32 for everything else.
Thanks in advance
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4th Jul 2020, 02:32 PM #2Most Valued Member
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Hi there,
I have a Bridgeport clone (Pacific FTV-2) which has INT40 taper and I use ER32 collets. Prior to the pacific I had a 45 size geared head mill from China. It has a MT4 spindle. I bought a new collet chuck for the Pacific and continued to use ER32.
The ER collets i have are from some random Chinese seller. Never owned a mill prior to my geared head thing so I have nothing to compare too but I cant really fault them.
When choosing which size collet system to buy i really just looked at the gripping range that each collet size can hold. The ER32 seemed the most realistic sizing for me. 9 years on and I still haven't found that decision to be limiting in any way really.
Its very much a personal decision and really depends on what most of your machining will be. That can often be very hard to predict because as your skills and equipment list grows, so do the type of jobs you wish to tackle!
The suppliers you mention are probably fine BTW. I have also bought from CTCtools as well and found their stuff ok. Their postage is not the cheapest though.
Simon
Sent from my SM-G970F using TapatalkGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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4th Jul 2020, 02:40 PM #3Member
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Very informative, thank you very much
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4th Jul 2020, 02:54 PM #4Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I reckons it's just easier to get a set because if you but a few sizes the next one you need to use will be the one you don't have.
I bought my chucks and collet sets (ER16 and 32) from CTC tools.
Tool & Work Holding - ER Collets - Page 1 - CTC Tools
I ended up buying the precision ER16s as they had them on special at the time.
They're not the cheapest but they are reasonable quality.
A 10 piece ER16 collet sets from them including delivery costs ~$50Last edited by BobL; 11th Aug 2020 at 08:50 AM.
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4th Jul 2020, 04:53 PM #5
Hi Ajax01, Guys,
I would go ER32 for the mill ! Since it would likely be only for tool holding you will only need four or five collets. Most of my cutting tools, slot drills, milling cutters have a standard sized shank. For instance a 6 mm shank cutter could have 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 mm cutters. The same applied to other sizes. My biggest collet is 20 mm.
If it was for the lathe then a full set of sizes is an advantage.
As far as cheap Chinese collets are concerned, I've found that in many cases they are just badly fettled and need properly fettling before use otherwise they have been OK.
IMG_0401.jpg IMG_0400.JPG IMG_0390.JPG IMG_0389.jpg
These pictures show the sort of thing that I mean. I got caught with one when I decided to check the runout and found that it was terrible. When the penny dropped I spent quite some time cleaning them properly. I found that a Stanley knife blade was a good tool to use to clean them because it fitted nicely into the slots removing the swarf. After cleaning I found that the runout was perfectly acceptable.
If you don't notice the swarf and put something in the collet and clamp it up the swarf gets squashed and causes runout problems. Then it becomes much harder to get the collet clean.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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4th Jul 2020, 07:11 PM #6Gear expert in training
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SYIC collets are excellent value
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4th Jul 2020, 08:24 PM #7Member
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Fantastic information everyone, very very useful.
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6th Jul 2020, 12:02 AM #8Most Valued Member
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I run ER 40 on my mill, but I suspect that ER32 would probably do everything I need it to in reality.
I watched a Youtube video that dealt with tool holding, now admittedly it was aimed more at the CNC user, but the information is still relevant I guess. One of the points made regarding the use or ER collets was the importance of the correct tightening torque to ensure that the held correctly. ER40 requires 130 odd Foot Pounds and there were adaptors available to allow a 1/2" drive torque wrench to engage the ER collet nut slots as well as replacement heads for Micrometer torque wrenches. The thing that amazed me was the cost - the adaptors were more than what the collet chuck cost. A few CAD drawing skills and a laser cutter or buying a standard ER spanner and adapting from there would probably fix that though.
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6th Jul 2020, 12:28 AM #9Gear expert in training
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In 6 years of running CNC routers and mills, not once have I used a torque wrench to get the "proper" torque and I haven't had a bit slip yet; just brace your foot against whatever the tool stand is fixed to and tighten it as hard as you can (just with your hands, not with a mallet). Not very scientific, but it works
It's important to make sure the threads and collet tapers are clean and it's good practise to put a drop or 2 of light machine oil on the threads and on the taper in the nut that presses on the top of the collet (if you don't have ball bearing collet nuts, which are even better) to ensure that all the torque is actually being used to tighten the collet, rather than overcome metal-on-metal friction.
Even more important is to ALWAYS insert the tool at least 2/3 the length of the collet, any less than that can permanently damage the collet and cause both excessive tool runout and insufficient clamping force
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6th Jul 2020, 05:00 PM #10Most Valued Member
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Yep, that's the method we use on the CNC router at work. I agree with you that cleanliness and proper tool insertion probably counts for more than outright torque on the nut.
I guess a torque wrench gives a clear benchmark and repeatability and may be handy for people of smaller stature to ensure that they achieve enough tension.
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7th Jul 2020, 08:57 AM #11Most Valued Member
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I've never used a torque wrench, I just tighten until you feel it positively take up and then nip up firmly.
If the collet nut tightens and takes up slowly and not positively, then it usually points to an issue with the collet, either swarf or other foreign matter is caught up which indicates poor tool holding and needs to be cleaned/inspected.
Simon
Sent from my SM-G970F using TapatalkGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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7th Jul 2020, 11:51 PM #12
Started out with ER 32 set, but was limited to a 20 mm shaft size.
Then got a 40, so am able to run up to 25mm shaft. Then bought the sizes from 20-25mm. A few smaller ones I commonly use like 12mm etc.. so dont have to swap the holder out as much.
Bought from Ausee, LPR - no probs so far.Frisky wife, happy life. Then I woke up. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".
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22nd Jul 2020, 02:55 PM #13Golden Member
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Just a follow up note on affordable ER collets.
I have been looking for 'affordable-to-me' ER32 collets that claim .008mm tolerance.
I prefer suppliers that have a favourable reputation (based on my experience or that of others), so checked CTC: about $12 per collet for .008 tolerance ER32 collets (only sold individually). At the moment CTC does not offer cheap postage so the total cost for 15 collets + freight is just under $270 (not sure if this would also get pinged for GST on the way in).
Then I checked M&G - no 'high precision' ER32 collets on the website, but I phoned and asked about the possibility of getting them in. An email from M&G this morning says they will order in some sets and let me know when they are here; price quoted is $134 incl GST and delivery to me in Sydney, so that looks good.
Cheers,
Bill
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22nd Jul 2020, 03:00 PM #14Most Valued Member
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22nd Jul 2020, 03:02 PM #15Most Valued Member
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