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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Greg, Guys,

    Isn't that motor mount upside down ?
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

    Default

    Hi Baronj,

    Thanks.

    I guess the pic kind of makes it look a bit tall at the top end, but the mount is symmetrical top to bottom, left to right - so any way is up really.

    I did think about maybe butchering the mount, but, that ain't cricket!

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

    Default

    As an aside .. as it happens, I did spot this. I was wondering if the anchor was a random parts special, but I think this is the same basic model, so all good. Note the rounded nose, no column pinch bolt, and no secure bolts atop the motor mount arms.

    It look like 'period correct' for the motor is 'put a motor in an old paint can' ...

    911486.jpg911485.jpg

    This beauty sold for $49 on greysonline in 2012.

    Greg.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default Pulleys

    Greg,

    I just measured the 3M's pulleys BEFORE I looked at the Waldown literature. It appears I wasted my time, different pulleys, different speeds.

    The 2/3M speeds for a 50Hz motor and with an intermediate pulley fitted are 150, 280, 320, 480, 570, 650, 1800, 2000 and 3000.

    The 8SN speeds for a 50Hz motor and with an intermediate pulley fitted are 160, 350, 650, 700, 800, 2500, 3000 and 5500.

    Carving the required pulleys from solid aluminium would be an onerous task given the considerably different cross sections of each pulley. Buying a beater 8SN as a donor would prove an easier and undoubtedly less expensive option. My 3M, when purchased, was devoid the correct motor and motor pulley. I was provided with a quote from Fiora Machinery back in 2006 for a replacement motor pulley Part No. 103525. $200 plus shipping. I bought the simple Workmax as a donor for less. Very suprisingly it was fitted with a 1 horsepower CMG donk ( standard Workmax motor was 1/2 hp ), perfect for the beefy 3M.

    The ill fitting motor you have tried to saddle up looks like something fitted to an old washing machine. If a CMG is hard to chase down maybe consider a GMF Cadet. I'm using one on the litttle Tough. Period perfect.

    IMG_20200616_092825128.jpg IMG_20200616_092745380.jpg IMG_20200616_094157800.jpg

    Bob.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

    Default

    Thanks Bob,

    And thanks for measuring! Thanks also for the 8SN speed range - did I miss that in the brochures you sent??

    That range of 9 speeds on the 3M sure seems a lot more evenly spread than the 8 speed 8SN. I mean that jump from 800->2500! Maybe the 9 speeds 8SN spread is a bit different.

    Re the motor - I was pretty bummed by that yesterday, but, hatching a plan here. I actually have the perfect 1hp GMC motor for the drill press - so .. good advice. Thanks Bob! But ... it is in the lathe .... I checked the motor mountings and I reckon it's a straight fit. This guy:

    IMG_20200616_185041.jpg IMG_20200616_183606.jpg

    But that of course leaves me without a motor in the lathe. However, I do have a replacement 2hp three phase that'd be just great (I have been meaning to 3ph+2hp+VFD the lathe - low speed backgear @ 70rpm or so is still too fast for threading up to a shoulder ... and the chuck is screwed on so I don't run it in reverse), but ..... the motor is hard-wired for star - not delta. The motor was very kindly supplied by forum member eskimo in SA and shipped gratis to Melbourne by another forum member.

    IMG_20200616_184138.jpg IMG_20200616_184929.jpg

    So, I'll need to make it delta and make some pulleys to fit it so that I have a working lathe. I'll take a trip to the electrical forum here.

    Pulleys still under investigation.

    Greg.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Greg, Guys,

    Looks like that motor might need the star point digging out, or go for a 240 volt single to 440 volt three phase VFD.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

    Default

    Thanks BaronJ,

    Yep. I saw it being done one time when a fellow forum member star->delta'd a motor for me when I was restoring the Hercus hacksaw. Very (very) kind of him. It all seemed pretty doable.

    This is also the best, most succinct guide I have found for the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWPs7TBf1Ds&t=4s. Funnily, it is for a Waldown drill press motor! I did need to slow playback down to 1/4 speed to follow along and read the text.

    The 3ph motor into the lathe is not a straightforward swap. Mounting hole spaces are different so and adapter plate will need making. Shaft size of different, so some new pulleys need making and so on. Then figuring out the wiring to the control box etc etc. So, quite a project in its own right for an electrical dunce like me.

    Greg.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

    Default

    Hi all - 'boat anchor' update time:


    I did end up converting that motor from star to delta. Thread is here: https://metalworkforums.com/f309/t20...lta-conversion.


    Then upon stuffing around with the lathe and motor mounting possibilities etc (the motor above needs a mounting plate for the lathe, and the current lathe motor would need a mounting plate for the drill press - hmmm) .. I thought I would actually just give mounting the 'motor what came with it' a go. I put some extra holes in the mount and got it on the drill press. Too low by about 1" IMO. Just not quite sitting high enough.


    IMG_20200623_202619.jpg


    So, I'll either need to go through with the lathe swap plan or keep an eye out for another suitable motor. I've been watching ebay and visited the local scrappy this morning who often has a bin of dead motors. No joy as yet.


    With some horse trading, I did snaffle a table in a lot better condition than mine. Original provenance- no place other than @anorakbob's esteemed shed (thanks _again_ Bob!!), but it came by way of another forum member. Thanks mate.


    Interestingly, the bore to mount it is larger than mine, so I needed to make some (rather) thin bushes to take up that space - about 0.8mm thick.


    IMG_20200624_204918.jpgIMG_20200624_205954.jpgIMG_20200624_210446.jpgIMG_20200624_211236.jpg

    I may yet fix the other "why so serious" table - I have robbed a derelict roadside BBQ for its plate, so I may do a sir @jhovel jobby on it and put a cast iron layer on it. We'll see. Actually .. I robbed two of them.


    I am experimenting with acid etching to re-create the tags for the machine. It has none, so I have to start from scratch. I have this pic of the side plate so far. I _think_ it _might_ be the one it _may_ have come with. Unsure. Indications so far are that it may be quite an early unit, so we'll run with this unless someone says I'm wrong:


    6272416519273081475.jpg

    (while writing this, that image is rotated by 90 deg. I have no idea why .. hopefully it comes out okay when I publish)


    I loaded that into 'the gimp' image editing software and watched some videos on how to clean up images and noise etc etc and then set into action. Here is printed mock up on the machine:


    IMG_20200626_183302.jpg


    The first trick to all of this is to get printer toner transferred reliably to an aluminium blank. I think maybe 1 in 4 toner transfers onto aluminium is correct at the moment, but my hit hate is getting better. When I figure this all out, I'll do a proper how-to writeup.


    IMG_20200628_100902.jpgIMG_20200628_121658.jpg


    Then the second is to etch the aluminium in a hydrochloric acid + hydrogen peroxide mixture. Both toner transfer and etching are difficult to get right. I've not yet figured the correct acid mix to get a good outcome. But .. getting there and learning stuff.


    IMG_20200628_154239.jpgIMG_20200628_132025.jpg



    I've been making a bunch of 'prototypes' and trying different things. Kind of hoping one of them hits the mark, but truth is .. I'm after _repeatability_, not so much a one-off success. There are a lot of variables involved with doing this at home with your own stuff - it is not a complicated process at all, you just have to figure what works with what equipment you have. For fun and giggles, pics below also show a prototype blu-tacked to machine. "Good from far, far from good".


    IMG_20200704_160127.jpgIMG_20200704_132122.jpgIMG_20200704_132127.jpg


    In other news, I was maybe figuring to make the pulleys I might have to make a furnace and melt scrap aluminium etc etc, but I scored some aluminium offcuts for a great price that are the right size-ish for making new pulleys. How do I know they are the right size? I am unsure for an early 8SN, but two forum members have kindly let me measure up a 3M and a 2M, plus a 2 pulley 8SN so the offcuts cover the max diameters of those. Ace!

    IMG_20200620_153623.jpg

    So, making progress, but no functioning drill press as yet.

    All help and comments welcome.

    Greg.

    <slurp>

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, AU
    Posts
    238

    Default

    You may be being overly critical of the plaque... that looks like some good work!

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    That motor is not correct. That motor and mounts is/are for horizontal configuration only.
    That motor probably came from an air-conditioning unit..where they reduce use rubber isolation mounts to reduce mechanical noise transmission into the supply air stream and cabinetry..

    Expect problems....motor could infact fall out of that mount in the vertical position.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Greg, Guys,

    Why not use a silk screen ? Your halfway there with the toner transfer technique. Once you have made the screen you can clean it and keep it for future use.

    I haven't done any for a good few years now, but I used to make printed circuit boards using a similar technique. The photo resist came in a tin and you just used a squeegee to spread it onto the silk, actually nylon, but it was always referred to as silk. Let it dry and then lay the positive onto the silk screen and expose it to sunlight or a bright light for half an hour. Then wash it in warm soapy water, rinse and let it dry. The warm water washed away all the unexposed area's, leaving you with a silk screen that you could use to create your PCB's ready to etch.

    In your case you could use the red paint as the resist and not bother to clean it off after etching.

    HTH.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Hi Greg,
    if you mean "the motor shaft is about an inch too short" when you write "the motor is about an inch too low", why not make a slide-on extension?
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

    Default

    Thanks for replies all

    JC - "good from far, far form good"

    eskimo - okay!! It looks 'wrong', and as you say, seems best horizontally. okay - that is the death nell for that motor in this application. Thanks for the insight. Joe, sounds like eskimo is right there.

    Baronj - I didn't really look much into silk screening. I did read a few pages but moved on figuring the way I was doing it was 'easier'. I might have another look at it. Maybe, if anything, once you get a good toner transfer and make a silk screen then you have a template to keep making tags. Sounds like you need a dark room. Thanks.

    Greg.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Nice progress Greg.

    That hole in the centre of the table is an all too common aftermarket modification. The Tough's table was similarly modified and to return the table to a more acceptable (to me) state, I bored out the hole to accommodate a plug. Your table has more scattered drill holes in it than the Tough but they could be repaired - https://metalworkforums.com/f65/t200...22#post1926322

    I am keenly following your badge reproduction process. There is a bloke by the name of Tom Utley on Instagram who frequenty shows examples of reproduction badges and plaques - https://www.instagram.com/kingtutley/ might be of interest.

    Bob.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

    Default

    That is a _very_ impressive fix on the table Bob. Inspiring stuff! Well done.

    Re the badge reproductions, thanks. I'll outline my process in detail here in the coming days. I might not have it perfect as yet, but the basic principle is there and anybody with a laser printer could do it after a trip to bunnings, coles and the newsagent. The front 'art deco' badge on the top box is going to be a challenge. It don't have any good pics of one and, as it is curved, it isn't going to make life easy - either gettings pics or making.

    Re Tom Hutley. Funny thing is, he got his urge to try to recreate the tags when doing a south bend 16" restore. I was doing my south bend 10" at the time - we bounced a few things off each other at the time if I recall. His resto thread: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ection-299300/. Here is his start: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ml#post3088617. It is such a cool thing he used that knowledge to become a recognised name is machine tags/plates/badges - whatever people call them! Seems he is now the go to guy for the youtube machining glitterati.

    In other news, I got a motor today that fits and I think may possibly be off a waldown. 3/4hp which will be nice.

    IMG_20200705_153546.jpg

    So, yet to scrounge:

    * good quality pics of the 'art deco' waldown badge from a few angles in good light
    * good quality pic of the power switch plate
    * an actual power switch that will fit said plate!

    Yet to make:
    * power switch plate (etched)
    * top box plate (etched)
    * pulleys and gubbins
    * spring latch for side of top box
    * front drill chuck holder clip
    * maybe one of those clamp 'ring' things for the column to tuck up under the table.

    Greg.

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