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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Brisbane
    Age
    69
    Posts
    452

    Default The Tool And Die Guy

    Hello from BC.
    On a serious thought here I suggest as many of you as possible go to the Facebook page in my title.
    Phil Kerner put up a post on May 24th describing what has happened to the USA mold making industry due to China's price undercutting. The same has happened here in Aus. As you all know nothing happens without tools.
    Almost nobody knows what toolmakers do outside the metalworking industry. They are a vital part of everything made by anybody.
    The worst part is that of those left the majority are nearly as old as me. Who will help to bring our industry back?
    I urge you all to watch his post.
    BC

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    "Who will help to bring our industry back"

    We will import Chinese workers on 457 visa's of course

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    jilliby nsw
    Age
    71
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Thanks for the link, well worth the time to listen to his thoughts. As a retired fitter / toolmaker I have seen the writing on the wall for the trade for many years. Not only is chinas cheap labour a major factor in destroying the trade/s in Aus, I also blame previous governments for allowing successful manufacturing businesses and their support trades to fail, and also the continual watering down of Tafe syllabuses in the relevant trades. Many years ago I had to attend TAFE for a week long catchup course and wandered into the fitting machining workshop to see how tafe was teaching F&M some 30 years on after I completed my trade. I was absolutely speechless on how much content had been dropped from the core syllabus and placed into optional courses. In short, todays fitter / toolmaker tradie competency is nowhere near the level of training that I had. My son is a cabinet maker an i also have reservations about his tafe training in the trade also.
    I can only hope that this virus has made the population realise the worlds dependence china, india etc and petition the current and future governments to restart Aussie manufacturing and train future tradies appropriately. thank you ,end of rant.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,443

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    Its not just in Au, its happening all over the world ! Britain used to be a big producer of all sorts of things that you can no longer get made here. There are a few countries in Europe that still produce high class engineering products, but at a price. Its not just engineering that is disapearing, when did you last have your shoes made by a cobbler or even repaired ? Foreign imports and supermarkets have almost destroyed the small shops, the high street is full of empty properties. Here they are being converted into houses and apartments.

    Who was it that said "Follow the money !"
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Willowbank QLD
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Without wanting to make a political statement it would appear our Government is letting this happen. When I say our Government I am not implying the Government of the day or any political party. This is been happening for decades so it is a systemic Government issue. The thing is our Government should be representing the wishes of the population, and most people I talk to want Australian manufacturing and quality products. This is about 5 minutes before they jump online and order from overseas.

    A growth industry in Australia appears to be Government Lobbyist. This is where anyone with the cash from anywhere in the world pays to have their opinion put to the Government. It would appear that we have been conditioned to thinking greed is good. This allows the training institutions to teach less and make a higher profit. We have a postal system that allows as to by something from China or India and have it sent cheaper than postage from 50 kilometers up the road. I could go on.

    I hate to say this but maybe our Government is representing the true wishes of a chunk of the population. That is to allow us to buy what we want as cheap as possible and maximise our short term profits.

    Now that you have given me the courtesy of a rant, the question I have is how to we change our culture and start looking after our Skills, genuine Australian Businesses (not overseas fronts) and reinvigorate some form of Australian manufacturing.

    Steve

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Cobblers don't make shoes they repair them, Shoe makers make shoes ( Just being pedantic)
    I fairly regularly check auction sites for bargains as you do, the other day I reflected on the fact, the bargain means, another company has fallen by the wayside, most likely because they
    could not compete with cheaper inferior imports.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Willowbank QLD
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Since shoe making was mentioned it is interesting to note that Australia does still make its own boots. R M Williams is one company that comes to mind. Yes they are not cheap and may not be everyone's cup of tea.

    What some of you may not know is that the Australian Army, Air force and maybe Navy have switch their parade shoe to R M Williams boots. This may seem extravagant to some but as I understand it, it come about for two reasons. The first was Defence was having a problem with soles falling of shoes on hot days. This meant that the shoe had to be replaced which was costing Defence. The life expectancy of a R M Williams parade boot is in excess of ten years. The second was reputation. On ANZAC day for example when we remember lost souls, was becoming a day of lost soles on the parade route. This was not a good look. By switching to an Australian quality product it created a situation where our service people could take pride in part of their uniform being an Australian quality product and the littering problem was also eliminated.

    I don't think Australia can compete with the world on cheap mass produced products, but we should be able to satisfy our needs for quality and niche products.

    Steve

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southern Highlands NSW
    Posts
    1,894

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Cobblers don't make shoes they repair them, Shoe makers make shoes ( Just being pedantic)
    It's only important to be pedantic if you want to be accurate.

    A shoemaker friend made shoes for a movie, but was annoyed when the movie came out to be described as a cobbler in the credits.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,443

    Default

    Hi China,

    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Cobblers don't make shoes they repair them, Shoe makers make shoes ( Just being pedantic)
    I fairly regularly check auction sites for bargains as you do, the other day I reflected on the fact, the bargain means, another company has fallen by the wayside, most likely because they
    could not compete with cheaper inferior imports.
    I understand what you are getting at ! My point was that the shoe shop/cobbler was on every high street in almost every town ! They simply barely exist any more. I know of a couple of them in London ! The sort where the posh knobs go. People like you and me couldn't afford the laces never mind the shoe.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Funny you say that people like you and me, I had a quote to have some brogues made because there are non off the shelf in Australia I was quoted $1600 ouch!
    needless to say I ended up with a imported item, no other option.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Alphen aan den Rijn, Netherlands
    Posts
    208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    There are a few countries in Europe that still produce high class engineering products, but at a price.
    Isn't this what it's essentially all about? Everybody wants the best product but most people ultimately choose for the lowest prices because they want to buy new stuff when fashion changes (which seems to be every other week) and throw out the "old" stuff. In my opinion it gets harder every day to find good quality products not because nobody wants to make them, but because most people don't want to pay for them. I am not sure what a government can do about that if people themselves make the "wrong" decisions every day?
    For the record, I agree that it's a sad situation we are creating...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
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    Default

    Problem escalates because the cheap imports force the local manufacture to increase prices so they they can make a living

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Brisbane
    Age
    69
    Posts
    452

    Default Tool and Die Guy

    Hello from BC.
    My take on this is to change what we can in the short term. Change your buying to Aus canned food, biscuits and fresh foods. We have lost 22,000 jobs in the manufactured foods sector and queen Julia called it the cost of becoming internationally competitive. We can't start to change things at the top level without big investment, so lets do what we can in the short term.
    In my business I'm swapping from China made to Flexovit cutting wheels and tig spares will come from USA when this virus BS is over. Every customer I ask about the intended changes has agreed it is the way forward.
    The biggest purchasers in the country are state and federal departments. They need to change their mind about place of origin of the goods they buy.
    Rant over.
    Lets do it together.
    BC

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steamloco1954 View Post
    Hello from BC.
    My take on this is to change what we can in the short term. Change your buying to Aus canned food, biscuits and fresh foods. We have lost 22,000 jobs in the manufactured foods sector and queen Julia called it the cost of becoming internationally competitive. We can't start to change things at the top level without big investment, so lets do what we can in the short term.
    In my business I'm swapping from China made to Flexovit cutting wheels and tig spares will come from USA when this virus BS is over. Every customer I ask about the intended changes has agreed it is the way forward.
    The biggest purchasers in the country are state and federal departments. They need to change their mind about place of origin of the goods they buy.
    Rant over.
    Lets do it together.
    BC
    You are dead right, begin with the small changes. I have seen this day coming for many years, as have many others.
    Australia has been self sufficient in the past and we need to go back to the can do mindset we once had. Relying on governments to chart a prudent course has not served us at all well and we must now pay the price and amend our ways before we dig our hole too deep to crawl out of.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
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    Default

    The cost of becoming internationally competitive, I can remember before we were internationally competitive and we were doing just fine, I could go to a shop and have trouble not buying Australian made.
    My great Grandfather ( a Scott ) used to say if you take care of the pennies the pounds will take care of themselves, same as above every little step will help, buy Australian made whenever you can, leave the other items on the shelf, and in time they will no longer be put on the shelf

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