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Thread: Noise Reduction

  1. #1
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    Default Noise Reduction

    Hi all just any suggestions for reducing the noise in garage specially for grinding and cutting of metal.
    And what is the fastest way to grind metal mainly mild steel....


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  2. #2
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    If you are trying to reduce noise transmissionto out side then quality insulation or even lining the garage walls and ceiling should do.

    if you want to reduce noise inside garage...earmuffs or earplugs.....although lining of walls with absorbing insulation will reduce echo transmission...but will not reduce noise from impact zone

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satwinder Singh View Post
    Hi all just any suggestions for reducing the noise in garage specially for grinding and cutting of metal.
    And what is the fastest way to grind metal mainly mild steel....


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    Thanks Eskimo .Actually I meant to reduce noise transmission for saje of neighbours.


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  4. #4
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I'm going to suggest a different tack
    For cutting - get a bandsaw - you can use it at 10pm and not annoy the neighbour.
    For shaping pieces easily moved and lifted - belt sanders are quieter than angle grinders.

    To reduce external sound transmission you need to line your shed (inside or outside) with something heavy.
    Brick or concrete blocks are great
    Plywood is good but is a fire hazard, even plasterboard will be better than nothing.
    Sheet metal also works but unless it is stiffened or solidly supported it can be "drummy" and transmits some sound and also heat.

    I lined the inside of my shed with RockWool insulation and then covered that with Mini-orb sheet metal and it works very well. While it is expensive Mini-orb is fire resistant and a stiff material and is a known architectural method of reducing should transmission and reducing sound refection inside a space.

    Corrugated iron would work but it will need more support than Mini-orb


    Minior3.jpg
    Some people have tried lining their shed with carpet (also a fire hazard) but it needs to be about 100 mm thick to have a real effect.
    Acoustic rock wool is better than carpet but needs to be 50-75 mm thick to have a good effect.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Insulating the walls and ceiling made a difference for me - by no means does it reduce it to nil but it does help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Corrugated iron would work but it will need more support than Mini-orb
    Other way around. Mini Orb needs more support than Corro. Internal support spacing on walls 2700 for Corro v 1500 for Mini.

  7. #7
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    Depending on what work you fo there’s also the option to make a smaller area sound insulated rather than trying to do the whole workshop.
    I’m no sound engineer but one of the key things is you need to block up the holes where sound goes through - almost impossible for a whole shed, and probably not a good idea unless you’re introducing another form of ventilation.
    Reasonably practical if you’re mainly doing bench work welding and grinding and has the advantage that it contains the grinding crap.

    I agree with Bob though. Reducing the amount of noise created is a good approach. Unless you are cutting sheet metal the neighbors likely won’t even hear a bandsaw, but no way you’re going to quiet a chop saw enough to use it at 10pm.

    Steve

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    I have been reading a fair bit about this recently as I face the same problem. I am waiting on arrival of a decibel meter so I can monitor the amount and noise and how changes I make affect this. My neighbours are generally very good, but noise is one sticking point.

    Ideal but impractical: Room within a room, fully decoupled.

    Next best: Decoupled walls with insulation. E.g. two layers of studs, not connected together. Or specialised metal channel designed to dissipate sound energy.

    Practical: Insulated walls and ceiling (heavy rock wool better than fibreglass apparently). Lined with heavy material, e.g Double layer of gyprock. Ideally the two layers of gyprock are separated by a viscoelastic substance. In the states they use Green Glue. Like many things, Green Glue is hard to find in Aus and very expensive. In a shed, a layer of gyprock and a layer a plywood is a good idea - you can then screw things anywhere on the wall.

    The best first thing to do is get rid of gaps and holes that sound can pass freely though. An open door will defeat all manner of expensive soundproofing. I have roller garage doors which is problematic as they have big gaps all along.


    What I do not have a good answer on is: How much does treating the sound in the room (with foams etc to reduce reflection) reduce the irritation factor for the neighbours. A lot of pages talk about sound 'proofing' (stopping sound getting out) and sound 'treatment' (stopping undesirable reflections and improving the sound in the room, e.g. what is done in home theatre and listening rooms) as completely separate things. I suspect some sound treatment will reduce the unpleasant nature of some sound even if it does not prevent it getting out.

  9. #9
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    Depending on what work you fo there’s also the option to make a smaller area sound insulated rather than trying to do the whole workshop.
    I’m no sound engineer but one of the key things is you need to block up the holes where sound goes through - almost impossible for a whole shed, and probably not a good idea unless you’re introducing another form of ventilation.
    Reasonably practical if you’re mainly doing bench work welding and grinding and has the advantage that it contains the grinding crap.
    The other issue with this approach is the noise inside a small area becomes even worse.

    A few years back I visited a GT seller who was selling a bandsaw. This bloke had set up a 2 x 3 m galv garden cutting shed which was inside a 6 bay galv car garage. He had his 2 large chop saws set up on a bench and had holes in the slides of the garden shed level with the bench into which he inserted 6 and 8 m long stock. I watched/listened to him cut up some stock - gawd it was horrible!

    He was a bit of a grumpy feller so I didn't discuss the acoustic merits of a BS versus a chop saw - I just handed over the money, grabbed the saw and ran.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post

    The other issue with this approach is the noise inside a small area becomes even worse.

    A few years back I visited a GT seller who was selling a bandsaw. This bloke had set up a 2 x 3 m galv garden cutting shed which was inside a 6 bay galv car garage. He had his 2 large chop saws set up on a bench and had holes in the slides of the garden shed level with the bench into which he inserted 6 and 8 m long stock. I watched/listened to him cut up some stock - gawd it was horrible!

    He was a bit of a grumpy feller so I didn't discuss the acoustic merits of a BS versus a chop saw - I just handed over the money, grabbed the saw and ran.
    Definitely if you create a sound reflective enclosure its going to be worse inside. In a past life I found that a pneumatic riveting hammer on the bottom of an upturned metal rubbish bin certainly created some action if one of boys was having a quiet nap after a big night prior

    I was thinking more along the lines of a stud walled enclosed space with cement sheet for internal cladding and rockwool in the walls. The only thing a metal garden shed really achieves is a reduction in debris spread.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by pippin88 View Post

    . I am waiting on arrival of a decibel meter
    Plenty of apps around for your phone which can be as used as indicative measure

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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post

    I was thinking more along the lines of a stud walled enclosed space with cement sheet for internal cladding and rockwool in the walls.

    Steve
    The hard surface will make the sound bounce inside...Ideally you need an absorbing surface...like exposed rockwool..even canite works ( can you still get this stuff). Another way is to line the rockwool with perferrated masonite.

    However the plan is to reduce only transmasion to outside then any 2nd lining is better than 1.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    Plenty of apps around for your phone which can be as used as indicative measure
    Absolutely, but I want a more accurate measure and I want to log / graph it. Maybe set up a big bright red light that is lit when db>limit after 6pm to help me keep the neighbours happy.

    I routinely wear good ear muffs with any noise generating activity so can't always tell if it's going to irritate the neighbours.

  14. #14
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picko View Post
    Other way around. Mini Orb needs more support than Corro. Internal support spacing on walls 2700 for Corro v 1500 for Mini.
    I agree but that is for structural support. My understanding is that noise reduction support requirements even for mini are different especially at higher frequencies. The mini in my shed is mounted at a vertical wall spacing of 1200 mm and the horizontal is 600 mm.

    There are other ways of dealing with sound transfer like spraying foams onto the inside of the corro which apparently works well.

  15. #15
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    The hard surface will make the sound bounce inside...Ideally you need an absorbing surface...like exposed rockwool..even canite works ( can you still get this stuff). Another way is to line the rockwool with perferrated masonite.

    However the plan is to reduce only transmasion to outside then any 2nd lining is better than 1.
    Exposed soft surfaces on the inside of a metal shop to absorb sound are tricky.

    Unless good forced ventilation is used, exposed rock wool is just going to fill the shed up with fibres and every time the stuff is touched its going to come off in waves.
    The recommendation when installing this stuff is to wear a P2 mask and that it will eventually end up trapped between two layers of something.

    An easier way to deal with this in a workshop situation is by sound scattering. The air inside the shed is a pretty good absorber and will eventually absorb the sound but what is not desirable is to get all the sound waves from a sound source directly reflecting back your ears at the same time. Scattering the sound will reduce this effect substantially. To do this as many flat surfaces as possible have to be reduced or eliminated. If there are large areas of hard floors, they can be partially covered in rubber matting. Exposed flat sheet goods could be hidden behind machines. Flat walls could be textured with a foam or chunky paint. This is why Miniorb and even corro works as a liner.

    The other way that works is to just fill your shed up with as much crap as possible.

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