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15th Apr 2020, 08:48 AM #1Diamond Member
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- Oct 2011
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- Sydney, NSW
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Moved Again - Shed Fix Up and Restructure
Hi,
Once again I've had to move. Living by myself now so I can pretty much do as I like in regards to the shed and my hobby.
I've bought a little house in Richmond with a detached car garage which is going to be my new workshop/shed. It's about 6 m x 4 m and will fit in all of my machines, tools, benches and every other thing I accumulated over the years.
It gets really hot in there though. It's a gable roof with concrete tiles. Also there's 5 low hanging ceiling joist (I think that's what there are).
I'm going to install a whirlybird to remove some of the heat. I also want to insulate the roof. I'm thinking pink batts between the trusses and then put up ply board or plaster board to seal it.
I'd like to remove the ceiling joists - I don't think they are load bearing but I could be wrong?
I also have to sort out better lighting and more power outlets.
Any advice would be appreciated. I don't want to move the milling machine and lathe in there until I get it sorted out but my Dad is itching to get his garage back!
Regards Ben.
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15th Apr 2020, 09:13 AM #2Golden Member
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- Jun 2004
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- Kyabram. Vic
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- 632
Ben,
If you are referring to the cross beams one of which has a fluro on it; they are structural. Their purpose is to hold the side walls together from falling outwards under the weight of the heavy roof.
Ken
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15th Apr 2020, 09:51 AM #3Most Valued Member
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- Aug 2008
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- Charlestown NSW
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Ben.
re insulation. you could also use the air cell type insulation. Staple directly to the underside of the rafters. That way you wont have to line it plus the foil will reflect some light back down. Lots of storage space in that roof.
peter
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15th Apr 2020, 10:13 AM #4
Peter insulate above ceiling use reflective matetial just unber tge tiles. Use insulation on top of what you use as ceiling, ply, chipboard, plaster board. Pop over to the woodwork forum tyere is a thread or number of on lighting sheds with LED. I've had installed in my double garage 4 1100x300x60000k lumin panels, fitted in a broken square pattern. I can turn just 2 on usually enough or all 4 which is daylight. There are smaller panels around..
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15th Apr 2020, 10:40 AM #5
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15th Apr 2020, 12:49 PM #6Senior Member
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- Jun 2011
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- gold coast
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What Toggie said.
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15th Apr 2020, 01:14 PM #7Senior Member
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- Dec 2009
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- Melbourne
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- 134
I would staple aircell directly underneath the tiles, and then put earthwool under that and seal up the rafters with plasterboard or plywood. Leave the high ceiling for storage. The joists (that the light is mounted on) will certainly be structural.
Would recommend painting the concrete and doing any wall treatments before you move in too. Redoing that with heavy machinery is terrible.
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15th Apr 2020, 02:05 PM #8Diamond Member
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- Oct 2011
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- Sydney, NSW
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Hi,
I went out and had another look at the garage.
Pretty sure the joists are structural and will have to stay. They are at a reasonable height of 2160 to 2180, so I can live with that.
The truss's are 400 mm apart. I'm still thinking pink bats for the insulation or polystyrene for the insulation and then maybe ply or plaster board. I am wondering if I could just go ply or plaster board without any insulation? I touched the inside of some of the tiles, they are warm to the touch and it's only 28 degrees at the moment. Last December we had plenty of days over 40 degrees in a row, one day was apparently 48 degrees!
I would like to paint the floor white or grey as well before moving in. I'm happy to leave the walls as raw brick in most places and put up ply walls where needed.
Ben.
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15th Apr 2020, 04:29 PM #9Most Valued Member
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- Nov 2017
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- Geelong, Australia
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- 57
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Definitely put insulation up there, don't just create a cavity with ply/plasterboard.
Whatever gives you the best bang for buck, and you might find that is a solid type of insulation that doesn't need anything more than a couple of fixings or wooden cleats to hold it up - as opposed to a soft batt type insulation that needs to be supported.
If you need a really cheap way of holding insulation up there, get hold of a roll of plastic pallet strapping and a decent staple gun. Run the strapping horizontally across the rafters and staple to them.
Also bear in mind that birds and other critters like making nests in nice warm soft places, so if using a soft insulation try and seal up the cavities where practical.
White paint on the floor will reflect more light around the place, but I couldn't cope with it looking permanently dirty. Mine is light grey
Steve
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15th Apr 2020, 04:35 PM #10Senior Member
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- Jul 2011
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- Berowra Waters
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- 149
Collar ties
If you wanted to remove the ceiling joists, you could replace them with collar ties, they could go about 1/3 of the way up from where the rafters sit on the wall plates. Simple 4x2 with BOLTS through the rafters would be enough. Probably on every second rafter and at each end. But, I’m only a builder not an engineer.
edit: I just realised you said it was a trussed roof, can’t cut anything out of a truss, it will fail.
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15th Apr 2020, 07:34 PM #11
Hi Ben,
I agree with the advice that you have been given. But as Steve says, vermin of all descriptions will make a home in any void that is left up there. I would go around the edges just above the gutter on the outside and make sure that there are no gaps or holes that can be used to access the underdraw.
We have a concrete fill around our bungalow to prevent creatures getting in to the underdraw. I found that wild bees, of all things, had eaten their way into one corner and built a hive in the cavity. The only sign that they had done this was a small hole and a number of bees flying around that area.
Several of the concrete roof tiles had to be removed in order for a bee keeper to dig the hive out. They had destroyed about two square feet of the four inch thick insulation in there. Fortunately I had some spare pieces from when I insulated the workshop roof. So it was just a matter of cutting the damaged bits out and putting in a new piece.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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15th Apr 2020, 08:37 PM #12
I hate moving, done it a few times but am settled now.
Put your Batts up behind the tiles between rafters using multiple string lines stapled or nailed across to hold them in place,
Then gyprock the rafters leaving the ceiling joists exposed to store stuff and give you a higher ceiling for machines etc.Using Tapatalk
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15th Apr 2020, 08:40 PM #13Diamond Member
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- Oct 2011
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- Sydney, NSW
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Went into the Big B today, and went online to check out some other options. This is what I'm thinking:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/expol-12...-pack_p0810837
for the insulation, cheap enough and looks like it would be easier than installing batts. And:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/customwo...panel_p0590079
to seal off the ceiling. Same reasons, cheap and easy to install. I might need to paint both sides though.
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15th Apr 2020, 08:42 PM #14Most Valued Member
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- Nov 2017
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- Geelong, Australia
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- 57
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Good that you actually removed the beehive.
This is what you can end up having to sort out if you just keep poisoning off the active bees...
Wall Bees.JPG
Steve
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15th Apr 2020, 08:44 PM #15Most Valued Member
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- Mar 2011
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- Southern Flinders Ranges
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- 1,536
It’s not a truss roof, so you could probably put collar ties on as already mentioned, not hard to do but will require engineering and probably a council permit.
For insulation, seal the gaps at the top plate, install silver sarking mat with the silver facing ground, put in some batts and then another layer of sarking with the silver side facing skyward. Put some sheets of 3mm melamine ply over the top to reflect light. The theory is by putting the sarking either side of the batts it provides a massive increase in the batts R rating because the thermal path is infinitely turned back upon itself. In practice it’s not infinite but it does make a huge difference.
Bunnings sell Knauf brand batts in a continuous roll that are specifically designed for underhanging floors and ceilings, it’s got a vented plastic backing that overhangs the batt that you staple up. Heaps easier than running strings to hold the batts up. The bonus nachos, it’s also quite a bit cheaper than individual batts on a per sq m basis. The free steak knives.. they are also mould proof and vermin resistant.
Keep updates coming, it never gets old seeing how people fit work spaces out, there’s always something to learn