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  1. #16
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    Dec 2011
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    Sydney
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewp100 View Post
    Thanks. I had a look at those U2. They may fit the larger vertical head.
    I'm still getting myself a bit confused about S20 W-20, U2, etc. I'm learning a lot over these past few days but it would be nice if there was a list for all the different taper configurations.

    The smaller one in the high speed head will be the more difficult to get and I am thinking of trying to get a collet for say a 12mm to fit it and then adding a cheap ER16 collet chuck on a 12mm straight shaft.
    Just using it for hobby work, I am probable best to try to make it fit relatively cheap tooling.
    Andrew,

    My understanding is that apart from collets that fit the spindles directly, there are two Deckel collet sizes commonly used: 20mm shank diameter (that's the parallel part) for general use in the milling machine spindles (with an adapter), and 16mm used in the high speed head attachment as well as tool and cutter grinders and probably other Deckel machines and attachments as well, example: https://www.rcm-machines.com/en/mach...rcszd1602-04-5 and labelled "compatible with Deckel high speed head". These collets seems to have a standard ISO threadform, not buttress. I think S20 refers to the buttress thread on the 20mm Deckel collet.

    I included reference to the U2 collets because they came up in a search, and looked the part, but more checking suggests that the waters are muddy. The "U2" seems to refer to a type of collet made by Vertex to fit their Universal cutter grinders, so not sure if they actually fit a Deckel. Lathes.co.uk ( Deckel Tool & Cutter Grinders ) mentions that some U2 labelled collets fit Alexander high speed heads but not Deckel, so proceed with caution.

    Cheers,
    Bill

    Edit: Looks like C-47 posted some more useful info while I was writing, but I won't delete the post.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cairns, Q
    Posts
    666

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewp100 View Post
    it would be nice if there was a list for all the different taper configurations.
    Andrew
    Andrew,

    Look here - not a complete list, but the three sections on collets cover many of them. This is a very useful site.

    Shopswarf Index

    Frank.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    332

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    Just to expand a little on Franco's post, a link, I hope with some additional information thread forms:
    https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/index.html crikey, didn't realise there were so many, no wonder things don't fit. The W** designation apparently relates to the Schaublin thread form of 45 - 5 degrees which is what I used in making the Deckel adapter, worked well.

    Also a link to an earlier thread on this site re the S20 thread https://metalworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=200510
    Last edited by C-47; 11th Apr 2020 at 11:05 AM. Reason: include link

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    melbourne, laverton
    Posts
    1,910

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-47 View Post
    Just to expand a little on Franco's post, a link, I hope with some additional information thread forms:
    https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/index.html crikey, didn't realise there were so many, no wonder things don't fit. The W** designation apparently relates to the Schaublin thread form of 45 - 5 degrees which is what I used in making the Deckel adapter, worked well.

    Also a link to an earlier thread on this site re the S20 thread https://metalworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=200510

    I didnt have any success cutting the S20 thread. My colchester is out of action and the hurces is an imperial model

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Gosford
    Age
    61
    Posts
    8

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-47 View Post
    Just to expand a little on Franco's post, a link, I hope with some additional information thread forms:
    https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/index.html crikey, didn't realise there were so many, no wonder things don't fit. The W** designation apparently relates to the Schaublin thread form of 45 - 5 degrees which is what I used in making the Deckel adapter, worked well.

    Also a link to an earlier thread on this site re the S20 thread https://metalworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=200510
    Thank's.
    I think my head is going to explode with all those threads. The thing I am still wondering is would the British copy Alexander still use the metric Deckel sizes for both the collet diameter and the threads?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    332

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    Andrew, a few more drawings I have dug up, in fact I think one of them was linked before, anyway the Alexander collet drawing lists 50 - 5 but I seem to recall from somewhere Deckel collets will fit, but don't hold me to that.
    As for other general threads on the machine, I don't recall, but suspect they were possibly Imperial, which should not be a problem anyway as both Whitworth and BSF / BA are still around in limited numbers. I can not vouch for the authenticity of the attachments.
    The drawbar is listed as the Alexander Horizontal one.

    20mm Deckel collet.jpg Screen Shot 2020-04-12 at 2.10.20 pm.png
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by C-47; 12th Apr 2020 at 05:16 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Tungkillo, South Australia
    Age
    87
    Posts
    74

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    Quote Originally Posted by EFI_914 View Post
    Well the machine looks a lot like a Deckel or a variant of the type.
    it is common for the early mills like that one to have a Morse 4 spindle taper and then they had the option to use deckel specific collets as used on their grinders. These are threaded s20 and flare out like an r8.
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/Zugspannzang...qKiSDMivKewO7g
    Always good to see more pics of the machine and the kit that you have with it
    Be careful about buying anything from Germany at the moment. I ordered a grinding stick via Ebay on Saturday and the German seller emailed on Sunday that they are not allowed to post anything anywhere any more because of the Virus and he refunded my payment. May also apply to Europe as a whole.

    Charles

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    71
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    5,942

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    Quote Originally Posted by franco View Post
    Andrew,

    Look here - not a complete list, but the three sections on collets cover many of them. This is a very useful site.

    Shopswarf Index

    Frank.
    I hope you don't mind Frank, but I put the index in the Conversions and Calculations section.
    Thanks,
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Gosford
    Age
    61
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    8

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    Good news, although a little embarrassing. I found some old collets in a box I didn't know I had. The seem to fit the larger taper but no sign of any for the high speed head. Ill have to organise a motor and slide mounting for that anyway so in the meantime I will keep an eye out for some.
    I have certainly learnt a lot about collet chucks and taper in this little exercise.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    melbourne, laverton
    Posts
    1,910

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewp100 View Post
    Good news, although a little embarrassing. I found some old collets in a box I didn't know I had. The seem to fit the larger taper but no sign of any for the high speed head. Ill have to organise a motor and slide mounting for that anyway so in the meantime I will keep an eye out for some.
    I have certainly learnt a lot about collet chucks and taper in this little exercise.
    great news mate. Have you tested the mill yet?

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Gosford
    Age
    61
    Posts
    8

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    Quote Originally Posted by azzrock View Post
    great news mate. Have you tested the mill yet?
    Haven't tested the vertical head yet. Hopefully this weekend.
    I have the horizontal working

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    97

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    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    I spent ages (several years in fact) looking for one of those or a Hercus before I eventually admitted defeat and bought Chinese. I have mill envy.
    Bringing up an old post sorry.

    Just got a GHA on the weekend
    You are going to hate me, I now have both of those machines

    I'll see myself out

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
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    71
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGMachining View Post
    Bringing up an old post sorry.

    Just got a GHA on the weekend
    You are going to hate me, I now have both of those machines

    I'll see myself out
    Nice, but next time around see if you can find a mill with a work envelope bigger than a child's shoe box.....

    PDW (who has an Emco FB2 amongst others, WRT small mills)

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
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    97

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Nice, but next time around see if you can find a mill with a work envelope bigger than a child's shoe box.....

    PDW (who has an Emco FB2 amongst others, WRT small mills)
    I've managed with the Hercus for a couple of years no problem. Yes something bigger could have its uses, but the versatility of horizontal and vertical (also the ability of any and every angle with the deckel) often makes up for it

    Also the door to my machining area is about 1.9 m high, I only have an engine hoist, and no concrete outside. Machine moves are interesting...

  15. #30
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    Jun 2011
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGMachining View Post
    I've managed with the Hercus for a couple of years no problem. Yes something bigger could have its uses, but the versatility of horizontal and vertical (also the ability of any and every angle with the deckel) often makes up for it

    Also the door to my machining area is about 1.9 m high, I only have an engine hoist, and no concrete outside. Machine moves are interesting...
    Yeah been there myself when I was a lot younger. Those Deckel type mills are really handy, I have one myself (Romanian FUS22 probably closer to a baby Maho). That's how I know about the work envelope. In fact I have a brand new Deckel FP1 all angle table sitting in my pallet racking, picked it up at an auction in Sydney a few years back. I use it on the horizontal boring mill when I need it.

    If you get to south of Hobart drop by. I'm not going far for a while, either here or off sailing on the Channel.

    PDW

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