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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Default Removing valve handle - ideas

    Any ideas would be appreciated, I'm trying to remove the handle from a tender drain valve (see pictures). The handle itself is steel, the valve body is brass. The square brass boss is 1 3/16" square by 1" deep.

    I've drilled out the 1/4" split pin as that wouldn't come out either - the handle is likely to have been there for 50 or more years.

    The gap between the handle and the valve body is non-existent so I cannot get a puller in there. I've had the assembly soaking in penetrating fluids for 3 days but, after that, belting the boss with a hammer and soft drift result in no movement whatsoever. Using a press is going to be hard as there's nowhere to get a good grip on both sides of the handle.

    I'm thinking I may need to apply heat but the valve is quite rare so I can't damage the brass part in any way. The alternative is to cut the handle off and make another one.

    Any suggestions?

    Tender valve 2.jpgTender valve 1.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Sutherland Shire, Sydney
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    24

    Default

    Hi Gavin, if the handle is steel can you weld a lug on each side and use a puller on it? Cheers Leigh

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    South Australia
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    Default

    Have you tried heating it with a Oxy torch

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leighg View Post
    Hi Gavin, if the handle is steel can you weld a lug on each side and use a puller on it? Cheers Leigh
    Good thinking, will try that tomorrow if all else fails. I need the handle to be recovered to use on another valve but I could grind the lugs off afterwards.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Default

    Hi Gavin,you've a nice problem there.
    When you tried belting the brass out, did you have the steel part supported in any way? Asking, as you may have set the brass enough that is jammed in there more. I have an idea that it may be a slightly tapered boss, not parallel.
    Something that could be tried, is to bore a tapered hole into a piece of steel (20-30mm thick) so that the brass taper fits in, then with the washer and nut fitted, the steel with the taper is mounted in/on something solid and then the steel handle is hit downwards with a hammer, as close to the square as possible.
    The reason for the tapered hole is so that the brass taper isn't damaged in any way, creating more work for you.
    HTH
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Have you tried heating it with a Oxy torch
    Thought of that but I don't have oxy, only MAPP gas. Also I was concerned that the heat might damage the brass valve body which is quite rare.
    I might have to resort to that up at the depot where we have oxy/lpg available if I can't get it off another way.

    Leigh's idea of welding lugs on might give me enough heat as a side effect.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Hi Gavin,you've a nice problem there.
    When you tried belting the brass out, did you have the steel part supported in any way?
    Kryn
    Yep, I was holding the round arm of the handle in my vice so I could apply "exuberant percussion". No luck


    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    I have an idea that it may be a tapered boss.
    Kryn
    Measuring another of the valves shows that the boss is parallel, talk around the depot is that they were made as a tight press fit in the day. No idea why and the people who made them originally are long gone...

    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Something that could be tried, is to bore a tapered hole into a piece of steel (20-30mm thick) so that the brass taper fits in, then with the washer and nut fitted, the steel with the taper is mounted in/on something solid and then the steel handle is hit downwards with a hammer, as close to the square as possible.
    The reason for the tapered hole is so that the brass taper isn't damaged in any way, creating more work for you.
    HTH
    Kryn
    I can see where you are going there, my worry is that the brass taper may be damaged and it's a lapped fit in the valve body. Also the walls of the valve body cavity are quite thin.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2011
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    Berowra Waters
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    Default

    It needs heat. I’ve seen the shipwrights pull apart similar before. They sweat them off with heat, from a fine oxy torch.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Default

    Hi Gavin, Guys,

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Newman View Post
    Thought of that but I don't have oxy, only MAPP gas. Also I was concerned that the heat might damage the brass valve body which is quite rare.
    I might have to resort to that up at the depot where we have oxy/lpg available if I can't get it off another way.

    Leigh's idea of welding lugs on might give me enough heat as a side effect.
    I would use a cooks torch ! A small intense flame will expand the steel very quickly without unduly heating the brass body. The steel handle will come off with a few raps with a hammer. Once the brass starts to heat up it will expand quickly. Using a large flame will heat everything up which you don't want.

    Edited: to add you might find that the heat from electric welding is enough to loosen it.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  10. #10
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    Mar 2011
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    Southern Flinders Ranges
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    Heat and/or press are your friends if you need to keep the handle.
    If you don’t you could get surgical with a grinder up one face of the steel and crack it off the brass. If you’re careful you could probably weld the handle back up afterwards if you needed it, but it may need machining if it has to be press fit.

  11. #11
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    Nov 2017
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    Since brass has a higher coefficient of expansion than steel, it also shrinks more when it cools. Try putting it in the freezer overnight before applying heat to the handle.
    Used to be great when I was in workshops that had a flask of liquid nitrogen around for fitting bushings. Soooo many uses.

    Steve

  12. #12
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    Default

    On that basis, can you pack the brass valve bit in dry ice?

    Michael

  13. #13
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    Oct 2010
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    melbourne, laverton
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    If it was me id probably. Cut the handle thru one of the straight sides with a dreamel or angle grinder or hack saw. the widen the cut with a wedge ,screw driver or chisel.
    then just weld it back together or tack it . Grind back to flat. There is plenty of other good ideas hear too.

    aaron

  14. #14
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    G'day Gavin,
    If you immerse the valve in water with only the top sticking out you can heat the handle with an LPG blow torch which should provide enough heat.
    The brass will conduct heat away into the water and stay relatively cool.
    The steel handle will loose heat into the valve but will hopefully expand enough to crack the seal. Spray on some penetrating oil while its hot and let everything cool again before trying to remove the handle.
    If it doesn't come off, repeat the heat, oil, cool cycle a few more times and eventually it will come apart.
    Good luck.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  15. #15
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    Jan 2020
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    Could a machine shop use a mill to CREATE two rabbet cuts so you can attach a puller to the steel? I would think you could mill the steel down to the brass surface on two sides, and the entire fixture would still work fine when cleaned up and reassembled.

    Alternately, you need to eliminate the natural corrosion that has wedged the two pieces together. There is something called "Corrosion of dissimilar metals." The corrosion is created by mating a ferrous metal to a nonferrous metal. Over time, the two metals will create natural corrosion between them. Perhaps dipping it into a bucket of hydrochloric acid or some other strong acid might dissolve the corrosion and leave the two metals untouched?

    Joe

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