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Thread: Horizontal Mill
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8th Feb 2020, 08:37 PM #1Golden Member
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Horizontal Mill
I have got the itch for a new machine - a horizontal mill. I watch alot of the usual YouTube channels and like the look of the Kearney & Trecker mills such as the Model H that Keith Fenner uses (I think Adam Booth's is a 10HP 'K'?).
As far as I can see there are no, or at least few, K&T's in Australia. What would be a similar brand of machine that might be available second hand in Australia?
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8th Feb 2020, 09:41 PM #2Most Valued Member
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There's lots of different universal machines around which have a horizontal spindle but can take a vertical head as as well.
What sort of size are you looking for? There's everything from small (Hercus??) horizontal machines through to well over 3T
A couple of the members on here have Victoria U2 mills, I've got a old Van Norman VN12, the likes of the Schaublin 13 has horizontal spindle etc.
All quite different machines, and probably the U2 would be closest of those examples to the K&T's you're referring to.
Steve
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8th Feb 2020, 10:07 PM #3Most Valued Member
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This is over your way - might be of interest.
https://www.machines4u.com.au/view/a...d-Mill/575238/
Steve
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8th Feb 2020, 11:31 PM #4Golden Member
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Cheers Oxx. Don't really know what I am looking for but it won't be to big as I am just a hobbiest and need it to fit in the 12x6 shed I have. Something substantial enough to do some reasonable hogging. You have given me a few names to investigate!
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8th Feb 2020, 11:51 PM #5Most Valued Member
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Kearney and trecker, as well as it's British subsidiaries made mills branded Milwaukee that were sold here and come up often.
Any of the Cincinatti machines are equally as heavy duty. I can also recommend most of the Russian made stuff.
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9th Feb 2020, 07:24 AM #6Philomath in training
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One thing that you will find (as I did when I was looking some time ago) is that most of the horizontal machines out there are larger than ideal for a home workshop. Particularly the smaller ones, things like power feed usually seems to be limited and not always available on all three axis. Some machines only allow power feed in one direction too (as the other direction is climb milling). Not saying that you won't find something that suits but it may be a long and thankless search.
Michael
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9th Feb 2020, 10:10 PM #7Most Valued Member
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To give you a reference, my Van Norman is around the 900kg mark, powered feed on X axis only, and 1.5HP spindle.
I'm currently tossing up whether or not to sell it to recover some space so PM me if you end up looking for something around that size and want more info.
Steve
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9th Feb 2020, 10:45 PM #8Most Valued Member
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Also be somewhat aware that a lot of older horizontal machines use old tapers like brown and sharpe or jarno, this can be really problematic unless you get some tooling.
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9th Feb 2020, 10:47 PM #9Golden Member
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9th Feb 2020, 11:44 PM #10Golden Member
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I have taken a look at a Dufour 624C and a 160. Not heard of this French company before but then again I am new to the machining world. One says NT40 spindle and the other ISO40 spindle. Are those the same? Is tooling readily available for both?
160: Gaston Dufour 101, 130 &160
624C: Gaston Dufour Type 624C
(tony's website is excellent)
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10th Feb 2020, 12:00 AM #11Most Valued Member
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Difference is the drawbar threads. Iso is M16 and NT is 5/8 (I think) both are readily available. SK40 is also another way of saying iso40 and NMTB40 is the same thing as NT40. But the included angle of the taper and the gauge line is the same on all of them
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10th Feb 2020, 10:11 AM #12Most Valued Member
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On a vertical head you can likely just swap out the drawbar to use both ISO40 and NT40 (or their various cousins).
The horizontal spindle might not be possible to swap out depending on its design, so you'd probably need the tooling for that particular taper type.
Those Dufour's look like nice solid machines. I've definitely seen the brand come up for sale locally, but not paid too much attention to them.
The 624 isn't an insignificant machine though at around 3100kg. Usually outside the DIY relocation size.
You've probably seen the ones from dealers on machines4u.com.au. I'd say work on approx 30-50% less in price if you can get hold of a machine being sold privately.
Another thing to check is that the support/s for the horizontal arbor are actually with the machine. They tend to go walkabout if the machine hasn't been used for horizontal work and not readily available separate from the machine. Not a show stopper as you can make something, but just need to be aware of it.
Same with the horizontal arbors themselves. Normal 40 taper arbors for shell mills and end mills etc are readily available and pretty cheap. Long arbors for horizontal work not so common from what I've seen.
Steve
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12th Feb 2020, 06:37 PM #13
H&f hm-54g
Have you looked at the H&F HM-54G, if you require a closer look at one in the flesh, you'd be welcome to come oggle at mine (xmas pressy to self).
Peter
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4th May 2020, 04:08 PM #14Golden Member
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Is a BT40 interchangeable with NT40 or are they different???
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4th May 2020, 06:12 PM #15Most Valued Member
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The taper is the same for all the "40" variants.
Off the top of my head:
ISO40 has small extension above taper, and M16x2 thread
NT40 has small extension above the taper, and 5/8-11 UNC thread
BT40 has no extension, and M16x2 thread.
In general, any 40 taper will fit, but different ones need different drawbars.
There's also CAT40 and SK40 but I can't recall what the difference is with those. Variations for automatic tool changers I think.
Steve
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