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  1. #16
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    Dec 2005
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    South Australia
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    Not a problem for me I have a lPG tank firmly bolted down will stop pretty much any coming forward ( HA! HA!)

  2. #17
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    Aug 2011
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    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunch View Post
    quietly amazed they all didn't go off at once with all the explosions and especially the heat, which I thought would have melted the valve quick smart.
    Pressure vessels such as LPG, acetylene etc. are very robust even in a fire. They can take quite alot of heat before failing. Certainly wrt to LPG, the closer to being full, the longer they will last in a fire before exploding. Reason being is that the liquid LPG acts as a coolant and will absorb much of the heat from the impinging flames in a fire. The equilibrium ratio of vapour to liquid is changed as the liquid absorbs the heat and changes phase to a vapour. The increased pressure from this is expelled via the pressure relief valve. Eventually the liquid is boiled off to the point where the walls of the bottle that are exposed to direct heat no longer have the liquid from the fuel to absorb the heat. One of two things will happen, the bottle will safely vent until it's empty, or the walls will be heated sufficiently enough to weaken and no longer have the strength to hold the pressure. Then you have what's called a BLEVE. Boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion.

    Most pressure vessels that fail explosively as a result of fire do so with a BLEVE. Rarely does the valve fail from the heat. They are obviously suseptable to mechanical damage but not thermal. It's usually the strongest part.

    On our trucks we carry compressed air to 200 Bar (soon to be 300 Bar or 4400 psi) in both the cabin (behind our seats) and in our lockers. They are not even made of steel but carbon fibre. We also carry two C size cylinders of medical oxygen. Ambulances (at least in Vic) carry larger cylinders of oxygen in a locker just behind the driver. I can't imagine they would explode, even in an accident. They are very robust although the valve group may get damaged in such a situation but they are well secured.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  3. #18
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    Dec 2005
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    South Australia
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    simonl, about two years ago my friends factory in Jamestown burnt to ground absolutely nothing left, except that is for a oxy/acetylene set standing up in the ashes minus the hoses the gauges were also destroyed
    my mate commented to the fire captain and he said is was quite common for gas cylinders of different types to come through a fire without exploding however they always treat the situation as a potential explosion

  4. #19
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    Apr 2012
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    Healesville
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    Pressure vessels such as LPG, acetylene etc. are very robust even in a fire. They can take quite alot of heat before failing. Certainly wrt to LPG, the closer to being full, the longer they will last in a fire before exploding. Reason being is that the liquid LPG acts as a coolant and will absorb much of the heat from the impinging flames in a fire.
    Simon
    In 2009 i was standing on my back verandah watching and waiting for a 1 klm or so wide fire front to hit me, there was no noise like sirens helicopters ect they were all hiding, you could only hear the roar from the bushfire.

    Then i won tattslotto... the wind changed, lucky for me but not for the poor buggers that lived in chum creek.
    As the fire took off up that valley the relative silence was punctuated by exploding LP gas cylinders, i dont know how many went off
    as i had other things on my mind at the time than counting gas cylinder blasts, but it was many, a lot, and it did not seem to take that long for them to go boom.

  5. #20
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    Aug 2011
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    Melbourne
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    Yep. They should always be treated with caution during and after fire.

    It's always a little unnerving when you enter a structure fire that is well going and you see pressure vessels. As a general rule, if you put a hose stream on them and they don't steam up then your ok. We also carry thermal imaging cameras now and so we can see at a glance how full they are and what temp.

    I've had a car on lpg explode on me when I was standing maybe 10m away and about to move in for extinguishment. It tore the roof and boot lid off and it sent it 60m behind me. It blew windows out in houses down the street. Not very often that happens. I think the safety relief valve failed in that system.

    Simon


    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Hi Guys,

    What about camper vans that have the LPG tank under the vehicle completely exposed to the road dirt and wet ?

    There are no inspections or particular conditions for installation other than the outlet should be placed at the top ! To prevent liquid entering the regulator. These under floor tanks range from 20 Lt up to 55 Lt. They do have a mechanism to prevent you filling them above 80% full though.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  7. #22
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    Aug 2011
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    Melbourne
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    Shed, you got kissed on the d...ck that day!

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #23
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    Apr 2012
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    Healesville
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    Shed, you got kissed on the d...ck that day!

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Simon we were lucky here, we had temps of 40 - 42 deg and fires burning 240 degrees around us for 2 wks, the black range had fire most of the way around it and if a north wind had of picked up i think we would have deep s..t even with all the fire prep in place...

  9. #24
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    Aug 2015
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    QLD
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    Seems many ways to move a gas bottle..

    My 10c... If yer want to keep them upright in car - First, all windows down. Move passenger seat forward. Place bottles behind passenger seat and strap them in an relatively upright position to seat back. Drive.....




    .

  10. #25
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    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
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    67
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    Some 40 odd years ago there was about 20 of us working when someone dropped a G size oxy bottle. The head hit a steel beam taking the valve off. The bottle flew across about 300 mm off the floor for 40 m then went off the side 10 stories up.. Landing some 300 m away in the slag pit. How no one got hurt that day I will never know.
    To this day I never leave a bottle in an unsecure situation.

    I cannot remember when it started, CIG or BOC gas but the guys at the depot stopped loading the bottles for you. They just leave it on the dock for you to load. That way you cannot come back at them if you ignored all the signs they have around the place, did not read the fine print you signed and not load it properly. If anything went wrong its your problem.

    Tony

  11. #26
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    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
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    Acetylene cylinders have a fusible plug in them which melts around 100 degrees. I think it's a lead/gallium alloy, and usually in the neck ring of the cylinder.
    Once this blows, it basically becomes a air/acetylene torch, and empties itself.

  12. #27
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    Nov 2015
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
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    85

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    I knew someone who worked at the Evans Deakins shipyards in Brisbane in the early 70's, he said he saw people laying over the oxy bottle, then get a sledge hammer and hit the regulator off. My mate said they could get them to go from one side of the Brisbane river to the other side.

    The other story I know is that acetylene is a lot more explosive than LPG, my old plumbing boss said he had a teacher at college who put some acetylene in a matchbox, then lit it. It blew all the windows out of the classroom.

    When I was at college I saw guys put acetylene into balloons and light the outside with a match and listen to the big bang.

    Also you can't run acetylene gas through copper pipe, if you do the gas becomes poisonous, I only know that because were were taught that stuff at college and you tend to remember it.

    Simon

  13. #28
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    Dec 2007
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    Sydney
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    My mate who served his time at Dehaviland as an aircraft sheetmetalworker said they’d make a neutral flame, rap the torch on the bench to make it go out.
    Fill a balloon and blow the telephone booths to bits.
    Dont remember how they lit them.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  14. #29
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    Sep 2010
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    Lebrina
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    On the subject of pressure vessels and fire. There was a fire brigade in the north of Tasmania named Bell Bay Brigade, just your average Volunteer Brigade with the exception of one small factor. I was one of only two fire stations in Tasmania to burn down, (caused by a thief trying to cover their tracks after knocking off the money out of the beer fridge). There were several relics from the fire on display in the newly rebuilt station. One was a .9Kg Dry Chemical extinguisher that had ruptured in the fire and blown a hole through both sides of a concrete block wall, the second item was a 160 BAR Breathing apparatus cylinder that had ruptured in the heat and looked like it had been packed with explosives. I developed an even greater respect for compressed gasses after seeing those two items.
    I recall being paged to a structure fire one Friday night. As I drove over the hill toward the fire I can remember seeing explosions and what looked to be oversized sky rocket taking off. The structure was a shed belonging to a refridgeration mechanic and therefore had cylinders of refridgerant, acetylene and oxygen within as well as several fridges of varying size. Even a domestic fridge goes off quite well when the whole thing is heated enough. During the cleanup, a 9Kg cylinder of refridgerant gas was found that appeared to be pregnant. The side had blown out almost 50% and must have been so close to rupturing.
    As far as the original question goes, I would exhaust every other option I had before putting Acetylene in your car upright or not. Let's just say that you are involved in a motor vehicle accident, not your fault of course. By carrying a gas cylinder inside your car, the level of risk for any emergency responder and yourself has just gone up dramatically. Usually if something goes pear shaped it goes downhill dramatically in my experience and I'm just not sure it's worth the risk.
    Do you get your gas home delivered? Perhaps you could arrange for your gas supplier to move the cylinders for you or cart the cylinders with other workshop items in a trailer?

  15. #30
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney
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    Then i won tattslotto... the wind changed, lucky for me but not for the poor buggers that lived in chum creek.
    As the fire took off up that valley the relative silence was punctuated by exploding LP gas cylinders, i dont know how many went off
    as i had other things on my mind at the time than counting gas cylinder blasts, but it was many, a lot, and it did not seem to take that long for them to go boom.[/QUOTE]

    I don't doubt your experience, but I am left wondeing why the cylinders exploded. All LPG cylinders I have encountered have a safety pressure rupture disk incorporated in the valve, as do other gas cylinders I have come across. Acetylene cylinders have one or more fusible plugs incorporated in the neck and or base to prevent over pressure and explosion. Perhaps they were old cylinders which had not had the required inspections carried out. I can still remember an exhibit at the local Technical College where I learned Oxy Welding which was of an oxy cylinder, without a modern valve with rupture disk, which had been in a shed fire. The cylinder was basically a flat piece of steel with the remnants of the base and neck still attached. It was reported that the explosion demolished the shed and house on the property, and severely damaged the houses on either side. The moral was to make sure your gas welding equipment is up to date. That was the mid 1950's.

    Chas.

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