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Thread: making press dies
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3rd Oct 2019, 09:27 PM #1
making press dies
Got a project on the go. My Ford jeep originally had the Ford script logo pressed into the rear body panel, ( panel is 18 gauge ) a chap in NZ was fabricating repro rear panels but he died some years ago. The logo is approx. Eight inches long and three high. The nz guy must have had a press die made up . So how do they make metal press dies these days ? Is it a CNC job ?
A friend of mine his late dad was a old school toolmaker, he made his own presses and dies , he made the watco brand spot light dies among his many jobs .
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3rd Oct 2019, 10:42 PM #2
Would be interesting to see someone do the Ford logo on a manual machine!
Only made simple bending and flattening tools for punch press. Even then tho, at the very least, need to make allowance for material thickness.Frisky wife, happy life. Then I woke up. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".
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3rd Oct 2019, 11:04 PM #3China
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Be very careful who you discuss this Ford guard and defend the exclusive use of their logo extremely diligently and without mercy
dies can be made old school by simply grinding a upper and lower section, otherwise it could be done by CNC.
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3rd Oct 2019, 11:15 PM #4
I am not certain, but suspect that the tooling could be done using a fairly enlarged template of the logo, a decent pantograph, and carbide bits. Then the issue becomes one of making the template, but it is easier to do than the actual tooling because it doesn't need to be as hard as tool steel (or hardened steel if you only want to press one or two parts from it), and it is enlarged so if you could produce the template to say .25mm accuracy (easy with a scroll saw and file/sand paper), then reduce it 5:1 in size during engraving with the panto, you should be able to get to within 0.1mm for the finished tool.
I think that you could do the template with something like Masonite cut with a scroll saw and dressed with sandpaper or a file, then glued to a Masonite backing. A former acquaintance was a professional engraver and worked on a variety of things in 2D and 3D ranging from the tooling for post office franking machines to large scale panels for custom audio and video equipment. If possible, lettering and numbering would use fairly standard font sets in appropriate sizes, but logo's etc would be carefully mocked up in the fashion described, then engraved.
You have given an approximate size for the logo, but haven't given the indication of how high it is raised on the panel, but I believe a set of engraved tools would be viable for up to about 1.5mm.
Nowdays, the 'standard' approach would be to have the tools CNC machined, but the machine and software price, operating costs and artwork preparation by specialists would make for an expensive job, whereas with a panto approach, the template could largely be set up at home with some prior consultation with the panto operator, a reasonable amount of time with a few tools, minimal materials and a decent version of the logo to follow.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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3rd Oct 2019, 11:52 PM #5
Hi Guys,
The few press tools that I have seen, made to produce raised lettering were made using spark erosion techniques using male and female carbon or copper electrodes. Admittedly the electrodes were probably made using CNC machines.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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4th Oct 2019, 05:37 AM #6Senior Member
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Laser cut from 5mm mild steel. Firstly cut the "F" to your required size then take another cut but 3mm or 4mm larger all round. So you now have a top & bottom die for stamping The "ORD" then follows & spaced accordingly. Very simple program so setup costs wouldn't be high.
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4th Oct 2019, 08:12 PM #7
ok
OK sounds like a plan but I don't quite understand the method ? Before I posted this query, I was thinking along the exact same strategy that malb described , I used to work in a carpentry shop where I made routed signs using a panto device , the templates we used were a plastic material . BTW most of the original ww2 Ford jeep factory drawings are available for download , somebody found them archived. I will post a link soon
images-2.jpeg
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4th Oct 2019, 08:38 PM #8Most Valued Member
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The bottom die would be the smaller script than the upper one, which would need attaching to another heavier piece of metal, as they would/could slide around, this supports the lettering when it goes in the press.
Utilising the same drawing, holes would be cut into the upper and lower pieces to keep the alignment correct. A piece of sheet metal would be slid between the "dies" and then another heavy piece of metal sat on top, that would be to give even support pressure under the press. Depending on the press several bites may be required.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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4th Oct 2019, 08:47 PM #9Philomath in training
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Given the letters are only shallow, it may be that a top die is not needed and pressing with some urethane sheet will give the necessary form to the letters...
Michael
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5th Oct 2019, 12:58 AM #10Most Valued Member
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Good idea Michael.
Many moons ago the mob I worked for had a urethane "rubber press" that was used for forming aircraft sheet metal parts just using a male die and pressing it into a thick urethane block. The urethane was too hard to deform by hand and was contained in a thick steel outer ring so had nowhere to go as the die and sheet metal blank were pressed into it. It would produce nice crisp features and 1" wide 90deg flanges but from memory was a serious press at around 200T force.
For this lettering job I think that even Masonite might do as a former if pressed into something like conveyor belting - provided it was all sandwiched between thick plates to keep the pressure reasonably even across the job.
Steve
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5th Oct 2019, 08:27 AM #11Philomath in training
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I have done something similar with my 10 press, but did it a small strip at a time. The key is to make sure the material being formed and the die don't move relative to each other.
Michael
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5th Oct 2019, 01:33 PM #12China
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Although on a much smaller scale this explains the principle mentioned above https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4feDCcpMH9w
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6th Oct 2019, 11:30 AM #13
ok
Thanks , some excellent ideas there.
If anyone is interested, the jeep factory drawings are available , somebody cleaned them up and enlarged them. https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=292445
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7th Oct 2019, 10:11 PM #14Diamond Member
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While not a method using original manufacturing techniques, I wonder if an acceptable result could not be achieved with 3D printing of the logo and just adhering it to the panel with suitable material, epoxy or whatever and just painting over it.
A variation of this technique would be to use the printed logo as a pattern and cast the logo in metal, and then fasten that down to the panel before painting it all.
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7th Oct 2019, 11:47 PM #15
Hi Guys,
Actually its very common to find that an emblem or some other embellishment is actually a plastic moulding stuck on to a surface with an adhesive backing.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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