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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default Need to build a workshop, share your experience

    Hi everyone, I'm in the beginning stages of looking to bring my workshop home, there is only a couple of years before the area I'm in now is rezoned residential and we all have to go as the factory I'm in now is large and will become flats.

    Currently my house has a terrible, paper thin and low steel single car garage, I want to replace it with something higher wider and longer but ideally it wouldn't be a standard size as I want to get every inch I can.

    I'll have a decent enough budget but I'm in no way a builder and ideally would like someone else to do the hard yards.

    If I want to not die from heatstroke when I work in summer but also want to get past council approval what are my options other than prefabricated steel structures?

    Sorry this is so vague but I'd just like to know what others have done.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    Hi Ralph, what dimension workshop do need?
    If you hunt around you will likely find that a prefab shed would be cheaper erected than you could buy the materials for.
    Often they will do the town planning and building permit side of things for you also.
    If council wont allow you to have the size and height shed that you need or 3 phase power is not available i would consider moving to somewhere else.

    cheers, shed

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,945

    Default

    How much available space do you have where you live. I know you mentioned a single garage, but any extra available space. How close are the neighbours, is the property sort of terraced/sloping block. Are neighbouring sheds built on the boundary lines, or in a bit, while you're wanderiing around have a look to see what sort of heights they go to.
    Do you have a SWMBO? What will she let you get away with size wise. Mine kicked up a fuss when I went to do the second stage extension!!!!
    HTH a bit.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

    Default

    Insufficient detail on size required and existing constraints, both physical (land config) and political/legal.

    Happy to discuss with you via email or similar - I designed and personally built my places so I can tell you how it can be done as well as why I made certain decisions. Only you can determine what the local rules will permit, though, and how much hassle owner-building is going to be in this day & age.

    FWIW my experience is, it's well worth paying a certified professional engineer to specify/certify the plans etc as this removes a lot of potential for argument with council building departments. Problem is, currently the engineers' professional insurance is getting priced out of all belief so I don't know how things would play. Can't hurt to ask though.

    PDW

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    473

    Default

    I am a little bit familiar with the current rules around permits and owner-builders etc (just put in above ground pool)
    -you will need plans showing the building, location on the block, neighbouring buildings
    -not impossible to do that yourself but it's not a trivial job - a good draftsman will be a lot less work!
    -talk to council early about planning requirements - there are rules about setback, clearances, heights, open space, etc.
    -owner builder permit required if total cost including labour (even yours) is >16k$. But don't do that unless you will be the builder (ie, subcontracting to the various trades) . You are responsible for builders warranty if you sel inside 6 years.

    That requires a white card, online course available.

    Lots of fees....

    You can use a private surveyor to issue the permit, or council, I don't think there is a huge cost difference if you shop around.

    The plans will need to show compliance to the building code (BCA)
    That may require references to design tables ( timber) or engineering signoff (steel).
    Also soil tests.





    Russ

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,416

    Default

    I rented a place with a large 10x8 meter shed which had 3 meter walls so around 4.5 meters high all up which was reasonably workable in the summer with it's roof insulation.

    What the owner did was to put corrugated iron vertical all around the inside for security reasons as he had many antique motor cycles, which I thought was a great idea. No extra supports where needed to be added to install them like gyprock etc would need. Also makes it easy getting behind them latter on when you may need a extra power point, air line etc.

    You could drop in wall bats between for insulation to stop the heat and the sound. Also go for the roof insulation the shed places offer as it does work.

    When doing the council crap, don't mention it's for a workshop, go with a storage place for old cars etc, they will never be back to check once it's had it's inspection unless someone complains about noise.
    Using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Laidley, SE Qld
    Posts
    1,038

    Default

    Contact some of the shed/garage/carport makers in your area, they will be the full quid on what you can and can't do on your site. If they are any good they will listen to your ideas and maybe have some good suggestions of their own.

    In my part of Qld and I doubt it is much different where you are the shed builder will do the council drawings, arrange the permits, prepare the site, pour the slab, build the shed, get the shed inspected and signed off. Its what they do for a living.

    You will save almost nothing and risk treading on a landmine if you go DIY.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Bungama SA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    960

    Default

    If you end up going for metal cladding use that foil back/rockwall insulation hard against the tin as it will annulate the higher frequency's and then use a stiff heavy material to reduce the low frequency's(ie chip board/mdf)bracing to stop movement(hanging cupboards to it will go a long way to help panel rigidity).
    Or do like the yankys do and get the whole lot spray foamed... be good for stopping sound transfer and give you superb insulation
    ....................................................................

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Alexandra Vic
    Age
    69
    Posts
    654

    Default

    I had a 16 x 12 x 6.5mH American Barn installed in the backyard of a 1/2 acre block in North Croydon Vic in 2006. Made an appointment to discuss it with Council Planning Dept for 9.15 on Christmas Eve 2005. Fronted with self drawn scale drawings of barn and site etc to find out the limitations that they would impose.

    Planning officer looked at the drawings I had, verified the block size and that the total built area (house and barn)was still less than 1/3 of land area and that it was for recreational purposes only, said I did not need a planning permit. I promptly asked them to endorse the drawings as such, sign and date them and affix council stamp and sign them which he did. Went to the shed company in the new year to be told that there was no way I would get a permit for a shed that size in a res area, pulled out my signed drawings and they were gobsmacked and the shed went up, didn't even attract much criticism from neighbours.

    In 2015, we bought land (2.5acres) in Alexandra Vic and approached local council planning office with similar question. They have an open policy for vehicle storage, and virtually anything goes provided it has vehicle access up to and into the structure, is for recreational purposes, and has normal planning scheme setbacks from boundaries.

    Suggest that you discuss things with the planning dept at your earliest convenience to establish the ground rules and then consider your options. Original and replacement barn were done by local shed companies, replacement one is custom rather than computer engineered and certified because I wanted mezzanines configured in a way that the computer is not programmed to design for. Custom engineering and certification was about $900 dearer than having someone feed the dimensions into a computer and have it spit out a set of drawings, quote and Bill of Materials, but money well spent to get what you want/need.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,444

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    When I had my workshop constructed, I made an application for planning permission. On inspection I was told that it was a "Permitted Development" and didn't need any permissions, as long as no one was going to live in it, then it would be classed as a residence. That was confirmed in writing within a few days.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,416

    Default

    Thinking back when I helped my mate chase up a shed in the Newcastle area, the shed place had there own aurthurised guy to approve and sign of on it for council, as you would be waiting months etc for local council because they where overloaded.
    Using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    Okay I have had a good chat to the local council and a few local prefabricated shed joints and it looks like I can get everything I want for well within my 20k budget.

    The current garbage fire of a shed is 3.5*5m and I'd like to squeeze in as much as I can but I'm limited to 5*6 metres in reality.

    3 phase is available on the pole but I'm yet to even talk to the utilities. I'm assuming I should be scared.

    Also I'm allowed 3.2m high at the top of the boundary going to 5m at the Centerline so I can have a steeper roof pitch for storage.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caskwarrior View Post
    3 phase is available on the pole but I'm yet to even talk to the utilities. I'm assuming I should be scared.
    You shouldn't be - they have to run 4 wires instead of 2 wires, big deal.

    From attachment to house/shed to meter box is at your expense, it is here anyway. Wire isn't that expensive, labour is so you need to talk to an electrician about costs. I buried 2 runs of 40mm conduit when I did my place, used one & left a draw wire in the other just in case I needed it one day. While I had the trench open all the way to the dam (rainwater overflow) I buried another 150m of conduit and 6mm^2 wire just in case I wanted to build another shed some day.

    As I said wire is cheap, certainly compared to the costs of opening up a trench that already contains poly pipe and cable....

    PDW

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South of Adelaide
    Posts
    1,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    You shouldn't be - they have to run 4 wires instead of 2 wires, big deal.

    From attachment to house/shed to meter box is at your expense, it is here anyway. Wire isn't that expensive, labour is so you need to talk to an electrician about costs. I buried 2 runs of 40mm conduit when I did my place, used one & left a draw wire in the other just in case I needed it one day. While I had the trench open all the way to the dam (rainwater overflow) I buried another 150m of conduit and 6mm^2 wire just in case I wanted to build another shed some day.

    As I said wire is cheap, certainly compared to the costs of opening up a trench that already contains poly pipe and cable....

    PDW
    That's a good deal. Here in SA you have to pay for everything, transformer, cable, labor.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Alexandra Vic
    Age
    69
    Posts
    654

    Default

    For new house and barn at Alexandra, meter is 2m from front boundary and 3m from Ausnet underground pit. House is 210m away (battle axe style block) and shed is a further 30m beyond that.
    $8200 1ph underground in conduit in common trench with 100mm stormwater and 32mm HP water main meter box to house sub board and thence to barn sub board.
    $16300 3ph as per the single phase except 2 extra matching cables pulled through the conduit.

    If there is 3ph to the house and the distance from house board to shed sub board is not far, it could be fairly cheap. But if you only have 1ph to house, you could be stuck for an inspection and replacement of household wiring in an upgrade as which ever contractor does it and issues a certificate of compliance will basically have to sign of on the whole lot just for upgrading the master switch at the house.

    In such a case it might be cheaper to bring the 3ph direct to the shed if the wholesaler will accept 2 meters serving a single unsubdivided address. That way the house box if safe and adequate remains untouched and does not attract a rewiring premium.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

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