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  1. #16
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    Default Shades of Grey!!

    Nearly two years ago I made an arbor ejector for the tool and cutter grinder's workhead inspired by the work of John " Shed". I thought I had used 1214 for both main components. My experiments this afternoon suggest maybe otherwise or that there are variations in the composition of 1214.

    I was disappointed to find rust on both components when they had been stored in a lidded plastic container inside a cupboard so I thought that if phosphating does provide some corrosion resistance, there parts would be worthy recipients.

    The parts when made in 2017 -

    DSC_8154 (Large).jpg

    And out of the box today -

    IMG_20190713_142527758.jpg

    After Rust-Offing with a non treated piece of 1214 for comparison.

    IMG_20190713_160305744.jpg IMG_20190713_160909914.jpg

    The disc took probably half an hour of constant swabbing, to achieve the pictured result. The bolt, about half that time.

    BT

  2. #17
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    For you Bob. One on the right is oiled, one behind is from the bath and a section of cut steel that they are made from is in front.
    Attachment 380801

    Michael
    What Steel Michael?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    For you Bob. One on the right is oiled, one behind is from the bath and a section of cut steel that they are made from is in front.
    Attachment 380801

    Michael
    I think you are tricking us Michael. They look like Kaiser originals!!!

  4. #19
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    The disc took probably half an hour of constant swabbing, to achieve the pictured result. The bolt, about half that time.
    Have you tried warming the parts Bob?
    Chris

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Have you tried warming the parts Bob?
    Yes Chris, with both a Mapp gas torch and a hot air gun. The disc didn't want to budge!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    What Steel Michael?
    EN25 from memory. Nice stuff to machine and gives a good finish straight off the tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    I think you are tricking us Michael. They look like Kaiser originals!!!
    Not quite Bob. Looking at my Kaiser originals, they have the spigot bit left bare. Other than that, they are close, especially with the coating.
    P1020271 (Medium).JPG

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Yes Chris, with both a Mapp gas torch and a hot air gun. The disc didn't want to budge!
    I did some reading and apparently phosphating does not work well with high nickel/ chromium steels. Could the disc be stainless?

    Michael

  7. #22
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    [QUOTE=Michael G

    I did some reading and apparently phosphating does not work well with high nickel/ chromium steels. Could the disc be stainless?

    Michael[/QUOTE]

    Not stainless Michael.

    Could be 1020 if it's not 1214 but if it is the former I would have thought the phosphoric would have taken effect quicker given the absence of lead.

    Bob.

  8. #23
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    One week on
    PAed pieces have been outside under back veranda and it has rained a fair bit in the last few days.

    No sign of any rust on the second from the left piece (stripped back to bare steel and the in PA for 10 minutes)
    Some small specs of rust on the pieces that were already partially rusted.

    Oneweek.JPG

  9. #24
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    The extra hundred metres or so you live from the Swan than me must make all the difference Bob !!!

    I have rust forming on 1045, oiled and wrapped in a zip lock plastic bag and stored inside that metal drawer pedestal next to the mill. Strangely the test piece of phosphated and raw, lightly oiled, 1214 bar left exposed on the bench shows no signs of corrosion..... yet.

  10. #25
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    Not phosphating but this might be of interest.

    Today I used some Birchwood Casey Super Blue I bought a few months ago for the first time and was pretty happy with the results.
    Birchwood Casey Super Blue 01.jpg

    The freshly machined part, plain old 1020 mild steel, after finishing it was sprayed with some brake cleaner to remove any oil then wiped dry with a towel .
    Thiel X Feed Stop 1.jpg

    The bluing compound was applied with an ear bud and a dark blue/black oxide layer appeared immediately on contact. The part was at ambient temperature which is not a lot here at the moment.
    After fully coating the part it was left for about 30sec then rinsed under warm water. The result was as seen below.
    Thiel X Feed Stop 2.jpg

    Finally after rubbing on a coating of ISO68 oil, beginning to end took about five minutes.
    Thiel X Feed Stop 3.jpg

    I've got no idea how durable the coating is or of it's rust resisting properties but it's the quickest and easiest bluing I've ever done.
    I usually flame blue parts like this and while the blue might not be as colourful it's nice and consistent.
    The 90ml bottle was around $20.00 so not particularly cheap but you don't use a lot so there's enough there to last me a long while.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  11. #26
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    Hi Greg,

    I've been using Super Blue for years for "cosmetic " touch ups. Extremely handy stuff. For blackening larger stuff I've tried my hand at acid fuming with the ever patient Bob L as my tutor.

    IMG_20181124_153131059.jpg IMG_20181125_115655518.jpg

  12. #27
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    The extra hundred metres or so you live from the Swan than me must make all the difference Bob !!!

    I have rust forming on 1045, oiled and wrapped in a zip lock plastic bag and stored inside that metal drawer pedestal next to the mill. Strangely the test piece of phosphated and raw, lightly oiled, 1214 bar left exposed on the bench shows no signs of corrosion..... yet.
    I'm starting to think your shed's brick walls might the culprit and might be giving off something that adds to the moisture and creates a more corrosive environment inside your shed.

    One possibility I have in mind is what happened to the copper pipes attached to the HWS at mum and dad's unit in the mid 1990's. Not long after they moved in, the copper pipes immediately underground from the HWS leaked and had to be replaced. The plumber also recommended all the pipes in contact with the bricks be replaced because they were also corroded. Over the following decade the pipes had to be replaced twice and the second plumber suggested we check the soil pH which turned out to be between <3 ! We neutralised the soil and painted the walls around the HWS system with a weak caustic solution (sodium carbonate) and that seemed to solve the problem, well they never corroded after that.

    The brickies assistant may have got overly enthusiastic with the brick cleaner and then never cleaned the residual down properly.
    We can test this by leaving some of that demonised water exposed in clean container inside the shed and another outside the shed and after a week or so testing the pH (you can borrow my pH meter)

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post

    The brickies assistant may have got overly enthusiastic with the brick cleaner and then never cleaned the residual down properly. )
    If only there was an assistant Bob!!! I never used anything other than my trowel to clean the bricks.

    I discovered rust on the Acute's 1214 tool block yesterday. It, along with the remainder of the kit, had been stored in the cardboard Auspost box Gary posted the kit in and then more recently in a Systema plastic box. The corrosion took place inside the tin "shed" which is insulated and lined. So, I don't know.

    IMG_20190721_080301312.jpg

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    We can test this by leaving some of that demonised water exposed in clean container inside the shed and another outside the shed and after a week or so testing the pH (you can borrow my pH meter)
    Should he have a priest on site when doing this Bob? Backyard Phosphating

    Bob,
    Does your concrete floor have polythene underneath? If not, that would be where the moisture is coming from. Melbourne is considerably more moist than Perth and I get almost no corrosion on my tools and very little on my steel stock. You’ve got something going on there.
    Chris

  15. #30
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    If only there was an assistant Bob!!! I never used anything other than my trowel to clean the bricks.

    I discovered rust on the Acute's 1214 tool block yesterday. It, along with the remainder of the kit, had been stored in the cardboard Auspost box Gary posted the kit in and then more recently in a Systema plastic box. The corrosion took place inside the tin "shed" which is insulated and lined. So, I don't know.
    I did a distance measurement on google earth and it's 300 odd meters difference, 700 for me and 400 for you. The other thing that might make a difference is the size of the land blocks. Where we are the small blocks means of the land is covered by roads and buildings whereas in your area with the bigger blocks there's more land to soak up and then evap water.

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