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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Buderim, Queensland
    Posts
    8

    Default Metal straight bevel gear

    Hi guys,

    Recently stripped down my Taiwanese generic cabinet saw, with a view to servicing the rise-and-fall mechanism, to discover the larger straight bevel gear, which drives the rise-and-fall spindle, with broken and missing teeth. The original gear seems to be made of cheesy sintered metal, compared to the very solid smaller drive gear attached to the height wheel, which looks like new. Overall, the cabinet saw is a very well built, solid performer, with beautifully machined cast iron top and wings and capable of accepting a 12" blade. she only lacks a properly made large straight bevel gear to make her sing once more. The gear I need is a 50 teeth, 100mm in diameter, 40mm thick central boss, 12mm drive hole with 4mm keyway, in something more solid than sintered metal. Happy to pay all expenses/outlays. Photo included. Very grateful of any help. Regards to all

    Gezdog (making electric guitars for future stars)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Hi Gezdog,

    First up welcome to our MetalWork Forum. We have many experienced and clever people here who enjoy the many facets of Metal Working.

    You may have noticed no one has answered you post as yet. That is because the post has been auto moderated. Its an anti spam thing that also stops new posters, posting a pic until moderated or they reach ten, text only posts.

    I shall fix that for you, now and the rest of the forum can read your post. I'll move the post to Metalwork General as not a lot will look in the wanted to buy sub forum

    As a new poster to the MetalWork Forum you can see what we have to offer by going to the LH top of the page where you will see the FORUM box with the little arrow pointing down.

    Click on the Forum box and then click on Forum Home the first title in the pull down. Scroll down to read them all.

    That will take you to a new page of headings to click on and explore.

    Generally new posters introduce themselves in the Welcome Wagon sub forum which can be found in the process described above.

    Wait a while and someone is likely to come along and assist you.

    Welcome again
    Grahame

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southern Highlands NSW
    Posts
    1,894

    Default

    To kick off, my guess would be that it's very expensive to have such a gear custom made, so would look at replacing both gears as a pair, with "off the shelf" parts.
    That's assuming it's OK to not have exactly the same tooth count and module as your originals.
    If you have a neat ratio (eg 3:1 or 4:1 etc), there's a good chance they could be obtained from suppliers of transmission components.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,436

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    HPC gears in the UK do these type of gear pairs in various sizes and ratios.

    Definitely not cheap though, but you would get steel or stainless steel ones.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    Your best Australian bet is Ronson gears in Melbourne, they carry the KHK stock gear made in Japan, pretty reasonably priced too. Can you give us the tooth count of the pinion then I'll give you suitable part numbers from the Catalog.

    Closest I could guess at was a 45 tooth 15 tooth pair with 12mm and 10mm unkeyed bores. Module 2, major diameter is 90.75mm on the bigger pair.

    Part numbers SB2-4515 and SB2-1545

    You would probably just need someone to bore and slot them, at a total guess I would think they would cost about $200 -. 250

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Buderim, Queensland
    Posts
    8

    Default Metal straight bevel gear

    Hi Guys,

    My grateful thanks to nadroj, BaronJ and caskwarrior for taking the time and trouble to address my request for help.
    caskwarrior- the pinion has 24 teeth, and is beautiful solid metal, unlike the offending main bevel! I confess I don't know the gear ratio. It always took a great deal of cranking to effect any sort of rise or fall of the blade. My research agrees that I may have to modify an existing paired set. The main mechanism is solid cast iron, fairly well-made, and very smooth in operation, quiet and vibration-free. However the pinion mechanism is perplexing me as the sleeve it runs in seems to be eccentric, causing a wobble in the pinion, which may or may not have contributed to the destruction of the main bevel teeth. I'm not an engineer, so I'm wondering if I'm perhaps missing something here? Regardless, the saw is now my secondary tool, having been superseded by a Chinese 10inch basic cabinet saw, which is not in the same league, quality-wise. I'll finish here before I start to sound like my father. Thanks again, guys, much appreciated

    Gezdog (making guitars for future stars)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,436

    Default

    Hi Gezdog,

    From looking at your picture, I would suggest that most of the damage and the wear that you mentioned on the pinion shaft has been caused by fine wood dust and chippings getting in there. There are two problems with these mechanisms, lubrication and wood dust !

    The need to provide lubrication, particularly the pinion shaft and then the wood dust sticks to the lubrication causing wear and I suspect damage to the teeth on the gears.

    You are probably going to have to replace the sleeve and maybe the pinion shaft as well.

    A nice project to refurbish the saw.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    I don't think you'll be able to keep your existing pinion, bevel gears just don't really work like that, your contact pattern would go to hell. Best get both and redo the whole thing.

    I highly doubt the ratio matters at all. You just need a pair of gears sized well to actually mesh in the space you have.

    Sent from my Nokia 8 Sirocco using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caskwarrior View Post
    I don't think you'll be able to keep your existing pinion, bevel gears just don't really work like that, your contact pattern would go to hell. Best get both and redo the whole thing.

    I highly doubt the ratio matters at all. You just need a pair of gears sized well to actually mesh in the space you have.

    Sent from my Nokia 8 Sirocco using Tapatalk
    Agreed, need to replace as a matched pair.

    Bevel gears are relatively tricky and a PITA to make on the average milling machine due to the taper of the teeth and change in contact point. I've done it a couple of times for very old machinery I was restoring, if I never make another set that's fine too.

    PDW

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Drouin Vic
    Posts
    633

    Default

    I made a set of bevel gears for a project last year; whilst a lot of members on here will have the necessary equipment to do this it is a very time-consuming process, you may be lucky enough to find someone who is so short of things to do that they would happily take this on for the fun of it, but that appears unlikely going by the replies so far. They are expensive to buy but for good reason- there's a lot involved in making a set of bevel gears for a specific application. I'm sorry I'm not in a position to take on a project like this for you.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,540

    Default

    Another place to try is Hercus, as they have some gears as stock items -
    Bevel Gears - Hercus Pty. Ltd - Hercus Gear Cutting - Adelaide

    Michael

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont 3133 Victoria
    Posts
    248

    Default

    A 9” angle grinder could possibly provide you with donor gears. Won’t be the same size but could work.
    Regards
    Bruce

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Laidley, SE Qld
    Posts
    1,038

    Default

    FWIW. A while ago I became enthused about cutting bevel gears, did all the research etc, along the way I came across a simpler quicker method of cutting bevel gears that was first used extensively in World War One.
    The resulting gears were not as good as 'proper' bevel gears but were quite adequate for low speed use such as field gun elevating mechanisms. And by extension I guess a table saw rise and fall mechanism.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,436

    Default

    Hi Bob,

    Do tell ! Enquiring minds want to know.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Buderim, Queensland
    Posts
    8

    Default Metal straight bevel gears

    Hello again guys,

    Once again I would like to express my sincere thanks to all who have contributed to this newbie's first post, most recently PDW; Pete O; Michael G; argeng & bob ward. Some great info there guys, & I love the idea of cannibalising an old angle grinder for parts (that's the sort of price which gladdens a Scotsman's heart, tho now happily domiciled in Oz!).
    Like BaronJ, I'm also intrigued by the military method of cutting one's own bevel gears. Sadly I have neither the tooling or knowledge to attempt this avenue, but it would be fascinating to hear just how it was achieved. Having invested tens of thousands of dollars in woodworking machinery, I would hesitate to start into metalworking in a serious manner-as I said, I just do what is required to keep the sawdust flying. I do love the finer tolerances and complexity of whirring metal things though, and can easily see its attraction.
    I fear I may have created a monster with my innocent post, and that several skilled Forumites are even now down in their sheds busily grinding gears just to see if they work! Please keep me posted, guys, and thanks a million for the interest

    Gezdog (making guitars for future stars)

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