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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Have the new lathe off the pallet and roughly in its intended position. Been doing a few experiments and enjoying the variable speed.

    Did some investigating of the VFD after work today and checked a few key values.

    Key data points are:
    Max frequency: 106Hz
    Reference Frequency: 50Hz
    Braking time: 1 sec. (note that this is the time to go from Reference Frequency to 0Hz)
    DC Braking Start: 3Hz

    So that explains why it takes longer to brake at full RPM as it is actually stopping from 106Hz not 50Hz. I explicitly tested that behaviour and checked the Hz at max RPMs. It was 106Hz.

    So I had a play with the braking time and tweaked it down to 0.5 secs. (Figured out how to access param setting mode and make the changes “stick”). Man it stops fast. Did a few high speed stops and checked the braking resistor to ensure no getting hot. Was ok. But I still chickened out and returned the param back to 1 sec. Will see how things go. At least I know how to tweak it now.

    Cheers,
    J.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Age
    64
    Posts
    11

    Default Another considering AL346V

    I hope it’s not rude to reply to a year old thread, but it refers to the exact same lathe I have my heart set on buying, and I’ve read all 5 pages & was hoping to ask a couple more questions if I might please?

    I know one of the first things new lathe owners do is turn up lathe jacks and steady their lathe dead level etc.

    I am however always pressed for space in my workshop with myriad other (woodwork) machinery.

    I’ve welded up cradles out of steel with heavy locking industrial castor wheels for all my machines thus far, and I “configure” my workshop for any large projects by pushing machines around on the concrete floor to get the best workflow between machines and benches and saw stools etc & for wood working this works a treat.

    To be able to use a new metal lathe & then next a mill, I’d really need the ability to do likewise, put them onto moveable steel bases with castors and push wood machining gear out of the way and set the lathe into position to use it comfortably in relation to free movement around the workshop, and access with metal stock if for example I was turning anything longer through the head stock.

    Is it a hard and fast rule that moving a metal lathe around is a definite “no no”?

    My concrete floor is pretty close to dead flat, and I guess I could make the cradle “height adjustable” with inbuilt screw jacks if it needed to be levelled again every time it moves?

    It’s a biggish workshop @ 6m x 7m but there’s a lot of storage shelves (I constantly have to fight family wanting to store their junk in my workshop & it’s a losing battle) as well as wood working machines so things are always getting shifted around, & I’m thinking the lathe will be no different.

    Next question, as a woodworker, it was said I wouldn’t make a metal workers butt hole, but my mates stuck up for me and said, I would! 😂

    Is this “too much lathe” for a complete numpty newcomer to metal working?
    I do fabricate in steel when I have to, can mig weld etc, and I’m half owner of a Hafco Combination Metalmaster AL280p lathe & mill - with a relative, but in reality it lives at his place and I’ve never got to even switch it on let alone use it, so figured if I want to machine metal I should just bite the bullet & buy my own separate machines, because he keeps the combo like a pig style, always covered in swarf & with tools and bits n pieces always laying all about the place, I’d struggle to get into his shed for space to place my feet & it would take me a day to clean up his mess before I could use my machine.

    We just don’t work well together, like the guy a heap, he’s family & we get on great for decades, but I can’t work with him and sharing a machine seemed like a good idea, but hasn’t panned put that way.

    So I need to buy my own.

    Learning to use it (in Perth WA) on my own will be the next hurdle. I’m paranoid about crashing a brand new machine, and would really like someone with knowledge to watch over me the first few times I use it to hopefully avoid stupid mistakes at the outset until I get comfortable with the controls.

    I do have another elderly relative is a retired fitter / turner machinist who could easily do this with me & would dearly love to do so, just to get out of his house & away from his wife & daughter for a little male bonding etc, BUT he had to retire from his fitting turning machining job due to a heart attack & he has a pacemaker fitted and isn’t allowed any where near anything with electric motors / magnetic fields & the family would never forgive me if he died in my workshop trying to help me out, so that option is off the table.

    Maybe I need to go to night school and use their lathes first?

    I’ve got a wood lathe & turned for years and observed a lot, but that’s a long way from knowing all the intricacies of metal lathe work.

    At 61 and after a long time wood butchering I’ve managed to retain my 10 fingers thus far & I don’t want to spoil a good record after this long by sticking my onkaparingas into a spinning metal lathe if I can avoid it.

    Any helpful suggestions?

    Many thanks in advance.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Ian - no problem talking about the lathe. I don't care how old the thread is, so long as its on topic.

    As a lathe the AL-346V is awesome. I love the variable speed, the power is good, when in a fixed position you can dial it in to turn true within microns. I had mine turning true within +/-0.001mm over 300mm length. Temp variations will muck about with that. But it was impressive just getting there.
    The downside is the brake. It's an electronic brake via a rapid stop under VFD control. If you want a physical "stop on a dime" brake then consider a different model.

    Anyways, here are some thoughts to consider re this lathe based on what you have described ...

    It's 600KG. That's a lot of weight to be wanting to push around. Also while the stand is reasonably rigid it is still made from sheet metal. So you any base would need to be pretty solid/rigid in itself.

    The other reality with metal lathes is they are very sensitive to any variation in their alignment. If you don't mind turning tapers then all good. If you wan to turn parts that are parallel then after any movement you will burn a bunch of time adjusting it so as to get the ways of the bed properly aligned with the spindle's axis.

    I think if I was looking at a lathe that could be mobile I would be looking at something lighter which would have the advantages of:
    [a] being easier to move
    [b] probably easier to make a rigid frame that it could be bolted to and if necessary the frame could "force" any twist out.
    [c] I would probably buy with the plan of adding/upgrading it to have an electronic lead screw (search youtube for that). This allows you to have power feeds under infinite control and the ability to do single point threading without have to much about with change gears or a gear box.

    Just some ideas to ponder.

    Cheers,
    james.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Ian,

    Welcome to the forum ! I quite sure that you will enjoy your new toy. From a lathe point of view there isn't too much difference between a wood lathe and a metal one. Its learning about how metal behaves and what you need to do in order to cut it. Get used to the controls and how they function, this is probably the biggest difference between the two lathes.

    As far as the forum is concerned we like pictures, and don't worry about asking questions, we all have things to impart and learn about.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Age
    64
    Posts
    11

    Default Thank you James

    Thank you sincerely for taking the time James, I really appreciate it.
    You make excellent points, & I’m inclined to agree with everything you said. I was all set today to go & look in person at the AL 346V down at Hare & Forbes Machinery House here in Perth WA. Figured I’d ring ahead and make sure they have one on the floor & a new one in stock If I chose to buy it.
    Turns out while they have it on their web site, they don’t actually have one on the floor to view or one new in stock to sell in this entire nation.
    All sold out, and if I do buy one there’s a ~12 weeks wait before they can get one into the country.
    The Covid shut down has affected supply chains everywhere apparently.
    I guess they must be a popular model.
    Anyway the guy tells me they Do have it’s bigger brother the AL 356V (a 14 x 40 inch) with a 2 inch headstock.
    I was hoping maybe to get into custom gun smithing maybe, so I’m guessing a slightly bigger lathe wouldn’t be the worst decision I ever made.
    While 600 kilos is heavy, to push around, both my cast iron Robland X31 combination with power feeder attached weighs around 600 kilos and so does my SIPA Top 6 bandsaw weigh around that weight & I manage to push / pull / drag them around the workshop on my own but it is a struggle, I’ll be the first to admit.
    Having a mill & lathe permanently installed would be nice but it’s already cramped in my workshop & flexibility to move stuff around is about the only way I can survive as it is now.
    I will go and take a peek at their AL356V tomorrow and take some measurements & see if I can somehow shoe horn it into the workshop somehow. I might have to do a re organisation, remove some storage shelve units to free up wall space might solve the problem, with any luck.
    The AL 356V is a tad dearer at ~$8k minus GST, and I’m guessing bye the time I buy tooling etc there will be no change from $10k.
    It’s a bit more than I’d planned to spend as I was also hoping the next acquisition would be a HF 48 Mill Drill & that’s going to run me another ~$5k.
    Suddenly I’m at $15k and I’m sure the mill wil likewise want all manner of collets tooling and face cutter heads etc.
    It sure adds up quick. 😳🙄

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    134

    Default new lathe-al-346v

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Moone View Post
    I hope it’s not rude to reply to a year old thread, but it refers to the exact same lathe I have my heart set on buying, and I’ve read all 5 pages & was hoping to ask a couple more questions if I might please?

    I know one of the first things new lathe owners do is turn up lathe jacks and steady their lathe dead level etc.

    I am however always pressed for space in my workshop with myriad other (woodwork) machinery.

    I’ve welded up cradles out of steel with heavy locking industrial castor wheels for all my machines thus far, and I “configure” my workshop for any large projects by pushing machines around on the concrete floor to get the best workflow between machines and benches and saw stools etc & for wood working this works a treat.

    To be able to use a new metal lathe & then next a mill, I’d really need the ability to do likewise, put them onto moveable steel bases with castors and push wood machining gear out of the way and set the lathe into position to use it comfortably in relation to free movement around the workshop, and access with metal stock if for example I was turning anything longer through the head stock.

    Is it a hard and fast rule that moving a metal lathe around is a definite “no no”?

    My concrete floor is pretty close to dead flat, and I guess I could make the cradle “height adjustable” with inbuilt screw jacks if it needed to be levelled again every time it moves?

    It’s a biggish workshop @ 6m x 7m but there’s a lot of storage shelves (I constantly have to fight family wanting to store their junk in my workshop & it’s a losing battle) as well as wood working machines so things are always getting shifted around, & I’m thinking the lathe will be no different.

    Next question, as a woodworker, it was said I wouldn’t make a metal workers butt hole, but my mates stuck up for me and said, I would! 😂

    Is this “too much lathe” for a complete numpty newcomer to metal working?
    I do fabricate in steel when I have to, can mig weld etc, and I’m half owner of a Hafco Combination Metalmaster AL280p lathe & mill - with a relative, but in reality it lives at his place and I’ve never got to even switch it on let alone use it, so figured if I want to machine metal I should just bite the bullet & buy my own separate machines, because he keeps the combo like a pig style, always covered in swarf & with tools and bits n pieces always laying all about the place, I’d struggle to get into his shed for space to place my feet & it would take me a day to clean up his mess before I could use my machine.

    We just don’t work well together, like the guy a heap, he’s family & we get on great for decades, but I can’t work with him and sharing a machine seemed like a good idea, but hasn’t panned put that way.

    So I need to buy my own.

    Learning to use it (in Perth WA) on my own will be the next hurdle. I’m paranoid about crashing a brand new machine, and would really like someone with knowledge to watch over me the first few times I use it to hopefully avoid stupid mistakes at the outset until I get comfortable with the controls.

    I do have another elderly relative is a retired fitter / turner machinist who could easily do this with me & would dearly love to do so, just to get out of his house & away from his wife & daughter for a little male bonding etc, BUT he had to retire from his fitting turning machining job due to a heart attack & he has a pacemaker fitted and isn’t allowed any where near anything with electric motors / magnetic fields & the family would never forgive me if he died in my workshop trying to help me out, so that option is off the table.

    Maybe I need to go to night school and use their lathes first?

    I’ve got a wood lathe & turned for years and observed a lot, but that’s a long way from knowing all the intricacies of metal lathe work.

    At 61 and after a long time wood butchering I’ve managed to retain my 10 fingers thus far & I don’t want to spoil a good record after this long by sticking my onkaparingas into a spinning metal lathe if I can avoid it.

    Any helpful suggestions?

    Many thanks in advance.
    hi ian
    where are you in perth
    steve

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Age
    64
    Posts
    11

    Default Nor

    North of the river Steve, & U?

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Age
    64
    Posts
    11

    Default Looked today

    So today I did go down to Machinery House and looked over the AL356V.
    Is it possible to fall in love with a machine at first sight?
    I put my hands on it, I caressed it’s controls, I even pretended to be using it (there was no one watching, I checked first).
    Switched it between high & low gears - moving the chuck by hand and it engaged gears easily. Moved the tailstock back and forth, locked & unlocked it. It seems to be adjusted properly, quill nice & smooth, quill lock worked ok.
    Saddle / carriage and cross slide all moved smoothly with their handles, the compound likewise.
    Backlash on the cross slide was pretty abysmal but I’m guessing that can be adjusted probably.
    QCTP was nice.
    I can’t tell - being single phase with electric variable speed dial, does that mean it’s a brushless DC electric motor?
    I really did like the look of it, 680 kilos all up with the stand.
    I didn’t see any cross slide lock, it’s probably a cap screw that hopefully I can replace with a kip lock lever from Blackwoods.
    Of course I couldn’t power it up & hear it run. I did spin the chuck by hand, and could hear the spindle bearings, sounded like they need to be “run in”.
    Lead screw covers.
    Has a pump and fluid delivery system.
    Has DRO.
    Would like to go tomorrow and buy it but might well give myself until Monday to think it through.
    Probably take me all weekend to “re organise my workshop” to make the space to install it.
    It’s not going to live on a moveable base, it will be installed and levelled & stay there.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    I've yet to find a real issue with my AL-346V, apart from wanting a bigger spindle bore on the odd occasion...

    The motor is a conventional 240V 3-phase motor. I did have a bit of a niggle with the electronic braking not being particularly quick, but fiddling with the variable speed drive settings, as advised by JamesW, had it stopping much quicker. Maybe not as fast as you could get stomping on a mechanical brake, but pretty effective. I think I've mentioned it before, but one of the neatest tricks I've found with the variable speed is when you're working with the half nuts continually engaged, when you back out of the work and reverse the lathe to bring the tool back to the start of the cut, I wind up the rpms to sort of fast-forward the return, making just a bit less of a tedious process.

    I've never found the cross slide lock - I suspect it's hidden under the DRO scale. I have a hex key sitting in the cap head screw for the carriage lock.

    Good to hear you're going to set it place - in case you're not aware, note that "level" doesn't mean the machine has to be actually level - mine leans back and to the right to direct coolant into the drain, but it still cuts parallel as the feet (which I added - they're not standard) are set so as to not have twist in the bed.

    All that said, I haven't spent a lot of time checking parallelism - I just tweaked the alignment of the tailstock to get it pretty good over about 300mm.

    Good luck with your deliberations

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Age
    64
    Posts
    11

    Default Thanks sincerely Rusty Arc

    Can’t thank you enough for your practical experience advice.
    I’ve jumped up a size from the AL346V now to the AL356V with the 2 inch spindle bore, but only because the AL346V is all sold out nation wide and it could be 3-6 months before any more AL346V’s land here in Oz.
    At the moment there’s one AL356V left in stock here IF I jump pretty much straight away.
    They are pretty much the same machine to all intents & purposes as best I can tell.
    I hadn’t considered the variable speed control for the purpose you describe, getting the tool back quicker to start a second pass.
    Makes sense once you describe it, but it would probably take a long while for the penny to have dropped for me on my own.
    Already I’m on the hunt for an 8 inch Starret machinists level because I will need to set it up so there’s no twist in the ways.
    I’m deliberately delaying purchase & doing some soul searching about whether I want to spend this big of a chink of change all in one go.
    I’ve made impulse purchases before today that I’ve later regretted.
    I could wait & try to find a used lathe cheaper, but I did this exact thing buying my Robland X31 combination wood working machine & it was a mistake. It’s a great little machine NOW, but like many used combination machines - if you don’t know what your buying you can end up with a machine that is missing many of the essential parts to perform certain functions, and then you have to start searching the world on line to buy everything that’s missing & with shipping & exchange rates & various upgrades along the way I’ve easily spent as much again on the missing bits & upgrades as I did on buying the actual machine.
    Yes it spreads the cost over a longer period so is more affordable BUT it takes a lot of time & effort & at 61 I’m not getting any younger.
    I’m not sure I want to buy an old lathe & spend the next 10 years getting it into the sort of shape I’d like.
    I see lots of capable younger guys do this, adding VFD’s etc but I’m no sparky, and only know enough to probably get myself killed messing with electrickery. I was born before the transistor was invented, I think I might be better just biting the bullet & parting with the cash & have all the bells & whistles from the start with a new lathe.

    I often look back at the old X31 experience & question whether I should have done just that & bought new to start with.

    Couple days over the weekend to mull this over & come Monday when I’m a little more rational and less in lust with fresh paint & glowing lights I’ll try & make a reasoned rational decision. 👍

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    As I've probably mentioned back in this thread, I did consider a second-hand machine, but nothing suitable came up anywhere near me, and since I hadn't touched a lathe since school, I'd have no basis on which to examine a used machine, and nobody I could rope in to advise. Without knowing what size machine made sense, I actually picked the AL-346V based on it having a metric lead screw, and then from there found that the features and abilities actually made sense. And it was on sale

    I also purchased a bunch of H&F carbide insert tooling - it's Taiwanese-made and seems pretty decent quality. The best thing is that the tooling came with charts to calculate the appropriate RPMs, which is a huge benefit if you have no instinct for how fast the job should be spinning. All that comes with time and experience, but it was great to be able to start making useful parts accurately and effectively pretty much immediately, and it's great to know the machine has more accuracy and capability that I will in time learn to exploit.

    As for the cost, it's a decent chunk of money, but to me, the quality and capability of the machine makes it good value for money.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Vic
    Age
    64
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Hello guys, I have really enjoyed reading this thread, it has been a few months now since a last post, and just wondering how are the AL-354V and AL-356V lathes preforming?

    I am am looking at the AL-356V, also considering the Assett Machinery Lathe SM_1440B, they look identical apart from the VSD option .

    I am interested in the performance with the VSD in low speed turning, does the lathe loose torque in low range? And also what depth of cuts can you do without causing to much power lose? Say for simple mild steel machining,

    PS I am old F&T from wayback, and looking forward to getting back to my roots of machining particularly when. I retire
    Thanks Gary

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Hi all, new here.

    Just pulled the trigger on an AL-346V, for much the same reasons as RustyArc.
    Last one at H&F too. Like RustyArc I am in Canberra so got it through the local guys. The $450 to get it from Sydney, then deliver and set it up at my place is worth it to me. Had the choice of AL-336D, but considered the variable speed more of a plus than the mechanical brake on the AL-336. The future might prove me wrong, but hey a choice had to be made and I think metric so it being a metric lead screw helped as well. As far as threading up to a shoulder goes, well its something to learn to control I guess. I once saw a video of an obviously skilled machinist threading at a fair speed and he never stopped the machine. Just disengaged the feed and removed the tool in one one motion then back to the beginning.
    My only concern with the 346V is the quality of the Chinese electronics, but I not heard of anyone having issues with it.

    I only have a few hours to change my mind anyway, so hope I haven't made a mistake. Anyway a couple of weeks before it is here.

    Cheers

    Rob

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Solera View Post
    Hi all, new here.

    Just pulled the trigger on an AL-346V, for much the same reasons as RustyArc.
    Last one at H&F too. Like RustyArc I am in Canberra so got it through the local guys. The $450 to get it from Sydney, then deliver and set it up at my place is worth it to me. Had the choice of AL-336D, but considered the variable speed more of a plus than the mechanical brake on the AL-336. The future might prove me wrong, but hey a choice had to be made and I think metric so it being a metric lead screw helped as well. As far as threading up to a shoulder goes, well its something to learn to control I guess. I once saw a video of an obviously skilled machinist threading at a fair speed and he never stopped the machine. Just disengaged the feed and removed the tool in one one motion then back to the beginning.
    My only concern with the 346V is the quality of the Chinese electronics, but I not heard of anyone having issues with it.

    I only have a few hours to change my mind anyway, so hope I haven't made a mistake. Anyway a couple of weeks before it is here.

    Cheers

    Rob
    I don't think you'll regret it. The local bunch's delivery service is very handy - they have their own tilt-tray and dolly rig for moving the lathe that makes the whole task much easier, and they put the machine together and test it before delivery.

    As mentioned earlier in the thread, there's an adjustment to the drive parameters that results in a much more convincing stop, on par with a mechanical brake. Oh, and the drive is a nice unit.

    Russell.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Canberra
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    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I don't think you'll regret it. The local bunch's delivery service is very handy - they have their own tilt-tray and dolly rig for moving the lathe that makes the whole task much easier, and they put the machine together and test it before delivery.

    As mentioned earlier in the thread, there's an adjustment to the drive parameters that results in a much more convincing stop, on par with a mechanical brake. Oh, and the drive is a nice unit.

    Russell.
    Thanks Russell,

    Will be a big step up from the 9x20 P.O.S I have been dealing with. After I fried the 3rd motor controller board (variable DC motor) when I stalled it and couldn't hit the stop fast enough. I gave up on it and put it on the floor in the corner. I recently got enthused and found a controller from an Optimum Tu2606V that seems to work. It has enough other issues(mainly rigidity) to rectify that I decided to get the bigger lathe then fiddle with the small one at leisure. Life is too short to be frustrated having to fix something that wasn't right in the first place. If I get it working how I would like then I can either keep it for real small stuff or flog it off.

    I would like to tighten up the brake response on the 347, so would like to know where you got the VFD manual, if you don't mind. Btw, is yours up against a wall or out from it. Trying to decide the best position as once its down etc.

    Also been looking at the MH-28V with the view of a possible CNC conversion. But not too sure how rigid it is. The HM-46 looks better in that regard. Though more toys for the wife to look askance at.

    Now to find a spot for it. I have an area about 5Mx3M in the shed that is home to welders and other toys and it has to fit in there. The rest of the shed is owned by motorcycles.

    Rob

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