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Thread: Yep another AL336
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13th Jul 2021, 04:27 PM #31Diamond Member
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Coolant hoses, adding DRO
My "gifted" AL-336 didn't have a working coolant pump. Finally got around to moving lathe a little, so I could get to the tank and hoses. Took some time last week cleaning out the tank, replacing the start capacitor, and re-wiring.
I notice that the coolant hoses from saddle to chip tray, and chip tray to pump, are weird.
1) Tray up to saddle has 3/8"BSP to 1/2"BSP adapters, and a 1/2"BSP flexible hose (normally used for plumbing in Australia - e.g. mixer taps, hand-held shower nozzles, et c.
2) Tray down to pump has 2m long 1/4"BSP flexible hose.
3) Pump has 3/8"BSP thread cavity in the casting.
Does anyone know what sizes this originally had? I'm assuming it was a 3/8 female to male hose down to the pump, but am not sure about up to the saddle and nozzle.
Also, last year I bought a DRO set from Hafco. With the back of the bed accessible, time to install. I decided to try and mount this scale as high as possible, to protect it when cleaning swarf out from under it:
IMG_1700.jpg
Scribe through the mounting slot:
IMG_1702.jpg
drill'n'tap some holes, bolt scale on. Now for the cover:
IMG_1703.jpg
which just fits under the gib screws!
Oops. Broke a drill/tap:
IMG_1704.jpg
That's what I get for using an impact driver on it
Started trying to level it. Headstock side was too far away from chuck. Time to scrape some bubbling old paint off:
IMG_1705.jpg
A bit of a challenge getting an indicator in the right place:
IMG_1706.jpg IMG_1707.jpg IMG_1708.jpg
Now some Silastic, to keep the coolant out of the cover and scale:
IMG_1709.jpg
Reading head mounting. This was a "mill DRO kit," so the hardware isn't immediately useful:
IMG_1710.jpg
Look around in my scrap, and find some old extrusion that will do the job:
IMG_1712.jpg IMG_1713.jpg
Tested quickly. Dial gauge near chuck goes back to zero if I am gentle with the carriage at the far end.
(If I am not gentle, the drag from the cable twists that thin plate, and the read head, a little.
Will need to replace the sheet in future, but at least I have a template)
Finished around the back, so I can put the splash guard back on:
IMG_1714.jpg
or, at least I could if the scale wasn't too long. Cut and bend a slot to clear the slide.
Now for the cross slide. Most people, and the installation manual shows, install these on the right of the carriage, away from the chuck.
However, on this lathe, that would cover the gib "locking" screw, and also means using the tailstock is harder - you need to extend it further to get past the scale & cover. So, I decide to try it on the chuck side:
IMG_1715.jpg
(this is a nice compact scale, but again a little too long)
The cover is below the top of the slide and bottom of the compound, so the only thing it can foul on is a large job - either jaws widely spinning or a big faceplate. Biggest problem is the cable.
Maybe I can turn the scale around so the cable goes out the back:
IMG_1716.jpg
Yep, that should work, as soon as I get some dome head or countersunk M3 screws (because the socket heads fowl on the inside of the cover).
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13th Jul 2021, 05:46 PM #32
Hi Nigel,
I used double sided foam tape to fasten the covers on my mill installation. It works well and saves having to drill and thread holes.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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13th Jul 2021, 07:43 PM #33Most Valued Member
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after reading all this sort of stuff on crap machinery I wish I could win the Xlotto to buy a Bridgeport and one of those fancy Schaublins....and A much bigger shed...airconditioned of course
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13th Jul 2021, 09:51 PM #34after reading all this sort of stuff on crap machinery I wish I could win the Xlotto to buy a Bridgeport and one of those fancy SchaublinsFrisky wife, happy life. Then I woke up. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".
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17th Jul 2021, 12:17 PM #35Diamond Member
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Turning the scale around?
The cable coming toward me was too annoying. The extrusion could attach if turned around (if I bought much longer 3mm cap screws), but the shape isn't symmetrical, and wouldn't locate as positively, so I decided to move the cable in the read head. Deep breath, plate off, cable in other side exit:
IMG_1718.jpg IMG_1719.jpg
Plugged it in and tested. Still working, and cabling tidyness is much better:
IMG_1720.jpg
Note that I took the plastic protector off here to test mounting as far forward as possible.
OK. Time for some drilling and tapping:
IMG_1721.jpg IMG_1722.jpg
'twas very hard to drill the front hole had to use my smallest drill:
IMG_1723.jpg
Check the alignment of the rail:
IMG_1724.jpg
The read head didn't quite sit on the saddle front, so I had to make a spacer (from an old optical computer mouse mat!):
IMG_1725.jpg
Attach it, and check alignment of scale:
IMG_1726.jpg
Cover on, and finished:
IMG_1727.jpg
EXCEPT that the scale doesn't work!!!!!!!
It moves freely, but the numbers on the readout are just noise (+/- 5microns).
I try the other input on the DRO, no change.
I take the scale off the slide, some changing numbers if I "rotate" the read head.
I disassemble the scale. Clean in there, no breaks or scratches.
I reassemble the scale. Some numbers if I twist the read head, but generally just noise.
Sigh.
I'm guessing that the little ribbon cable in there, that attaches the read head (optical board, spring loaded sled with tiny bearings) to the circuit board, is damaged. Probably pulled it when I drilled through head into the saddle.
If the circuit board wasn't "potted" in the read head, I would try a repair, but this compact model is, annoyingly, waterproffed and glued in there.
Looks like some further shopping will be needed
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17th Jul 2021, 05:25 PM #36
Hi Nigel, Guys,
Are you aware that the glass scale is only etched on one side ! To turn the read head shell around is easy but the sensor only works on one side of the glass.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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17th Jul 2021, 06:37 PM #37Diamond Member
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Thanks - wasn't aware. The optical scales I have seen (this SINO and an old one I pulled apart years ago) seem to have a light on one side and either a single large sensor (camera) or row or 4 little sensors on the other side. I thought it would sense through the glass.
Thinking more deeply, I guess the sensor has to focus sharply to resolve microns, so a lens and a surface etched pattern makes sense.
Not the problem here, though. I only changed the direction of the cable in the still-attached read head. Didn't remove and flip the whole read head.
P.S. These compact scales have the glass at an angle inside to save space (at least 30°?). Flipping the entire read head would be impossible without serious bending of the sprung bearing sled !
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17th Jul 2021, 11:39 PM #38
Hi Nigel,
I've not seen any like you describe ! A canted scale would make it quite awkward at best.
When I flipped one of mine around so the cable pointed the other way the read head wasn't flipped, I just bent the wires to the cable the other way and refitted the case as you have done.
The scale itself was only etched on one side of the glass and the sensor ran on four tiny spring loaded races.
I'm sure that I posted some pictures of mine because I had to cut one of the scales down because it was about six inches too long. I recall that it was a pig to drill and thread four M2 holes to fasten the end support back on.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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23rd Jul 2021, 07:23 PM #39Diamond Member
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Canted scale
Inside of the broken Sino MK-500:
IMG_1738.jpg
Probably equivalent to Sino KA-500 in the current model range.
I suspect all the compact scales (e.g. Sino's smaller KA-200) are like this.
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23rd Jul 2021, 09:24 PM #40Diamond Member
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Finished DRO install
Bought a replacement scale. 220mm instead of the 270 I broke. Used one of the existing holes, fitted nearly central on the cross slide:
IMG_1734.jpg IMG_1735.jpg
but in that position it doesn't travel all the way - hits the end stop of the scale.
So, I moved the scale a bit closer to the operator/front saddle.
Just under 177mm travel before it moves past the back end of the feed screw:
IMG_1736.jpg IMG_1737.jpg
In my default 3jaw chuck, having the scale on that side doesn't really limit turning diameter:
IMG_1740.jpg IMG_1739.jpg
This is about 158mm, and jaws clear the scale. Slightly smaller diameter would also clear the cross slide.
(and the tool post is ridiculously close to headstock here - I would be machining the outside of the jaws)
I also put a thicker plate between the carriage and the bed's scale, as the thinner one was flexing.
IMG_1742.jpg
So, basically finished:
IMG_1741.jpg IMG_1745.jpg
There are a few things I could do, like clamp the cable where it goes over the bed:
IMG_1743.jpg IMG_1742.jpg
or maybe run the scale cables in a tube to keep them moving smoothly:
IMG_1744.jpg
but I'll try using it for a while, with a tray of swarf and coolant, and see if there are any other issues.
Note: from what I can gather, some people configure their lathe DROs like a mill - where depth of cut would be Z, which they map to carriage position?
I think that's crazy (unless you have a cutter in the lathe chuck, and you turn your head on the side while machining )
I've setup X as carriage position, and Z as cross slide (depth of cut). I'm also hoping to use Y for turning diameter, by connecting cross slide scale to both Y and Z inputs, and setting DRO display Y to double the value, if I can. Gotta read the manual
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23rd Jul 2021, 10:01 PM #41I break stuff...
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You might be out of luck on that one. My Sino (SDS6-3V) only allows for diameter mode on X from memory. Which is annoying, as I would have liked to have X as the carriage, and Y for the slide so that the directions of movement match the mill DRO (as in left/right is top display, in/out next one down).
But maybe that was just because I wanted to be able to switch between radius/diameter at will.
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26th Jul 2021, 06:19 PM #42Diamond Member
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Mine is a Sino XH3. I skimmed the manual, and found 2 applicable sections:
Code:2.8 Lathe Function When machining workpiece, two axles are installed on some apparatuses in the same direction, position of apparatus is the sum of displacements of two axels, a mode like this is called lathe mode. ... ... When lathe mode is 3, display value of Y-axis = display value of Y-axis + display value of Z-axis;
Code:6.5 Set the radius/diameter display mode (R-D MODE) ... 3) Axis of selection, press X, Y, Z key, respectively change the display of each numerical axis;
I just tested R-D mode, and it seems each axis can be set to double ! (or for 10 micron res. instead of 5)
So, if I can electrically duplicate cross slide to Y and Z inputs, then I can have Y always display double Z
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26th Jul 2021, 07:12 PM #43I break stuff...
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Good news for you then! Is that set up by going into the menu on startup (radius/diameter I mean)? As far as I could ever tell from reading the docs on H&F site, you couldn't switch 'on the fly' with that model?
That was one of the reasons I went with the SDS6, as I wasn't real sure whether I'd like diameter mode, or whether I'd want radius as well at times (turns out I do like having both, from the little bit I've used it!). On the SDS6 I can just bash "1/2" and then "X" at any point to change between them, and the text "SEL" under the digits for the X reading lights up when in diameter mode. Only works on the X axis though.....
Your solution is an interesting way of doing it though, I could probably do the same on mine, piggy back the signal from X into Y, and have X set to diameter, Y as radius and Z as carriage. FAR too many other projects of higher value though for me to ever bother with it, given I can very quickly switch between already...
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16th Aug 2021, 06:54 PM #44Diamond Member
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Double DRO working, locking screws in tailstock
1. Jaycar has IDC DB9 plugs/sockets, so did a small "Click & collect" order:
IMG_1818.jpg
and used the IDC press I have had here for ages gathering dust:
IMG_1819.jpg (a vice would have worked just as well)
to make a serial double-adapter:
IMG_1820.jpg
which hides behind the DRO:
IMG_1821.jpg
and achieves the desired result!!!!
IMG_1822.jpg
...I'll either wrap some foil shielding around that ribbon cable, or buy a proper male to female DB9 double adapter cable.
2. The tailstock in this lathe has no flats to lock the tang of a chuck or large drill. (the larger AL-10000 has flats and a slot for putting a wedge into!)
A few times, I have managed to spin the thing when winding a drill out, or sometimes when tightening a sad keyless chuck (that binds badly at a few points in its jaw-sliding taper). So, I investigated adding something to lock the tang.
Other lathes of a similar size seem to have a pin through the tailstock, offset from centre. That was my original thought, but for some reason this tailstock has a really long thread on the feed screw - it the end of a tanged taper by nearly 30mm!
Which would mean I 'd need to shorten the screw so it didn't fowl on a hypothetical tang-locking pin. Possible, but combined with precision offset pin machining and fitting, too much work for this duck
So, I did some measuring up, and decided on the simplest locking system:
Hafco AL336 tailstock.jpg
...quill into the mill, for a spot drill:
IMG_1799.jpg
then a 5mm hole all the way through, and tap at M6:
IMG_1800.jpg IMG_1801.jpg
(note that the tap slipped in a 6mm collet, so I went up to a 10mm to hold a tap wrench!)
10mm long grub screws are just a little long. Had to grind a little off the end:
IMG_1802.jpg
LockTight'd in place, and just a little gentle filing of the burrs gives me a working solution:
IMG_1803.jpg
When they wear out, I'm hoping I can burn off the glue and drive them into the cavity.
I will eventually file flat the parts that engage on the tang, to minimise damage to the edge of the tang
(which is where these grub screws just engage/lock on)
If I was doing it again, I would machine a much longer version of this:
IMG_1804.jpg
with a slot in the bottom end, so that it locked on the tang?
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16th Aug 2021, 09:01 PM #45Senior Member
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Nigel
I have the same press, move it around 4 depots. Had it stored at the last one, got back to the office one day & they'd started a clean up. Rescued it from the skip bin. Redundancy Dec 2018, moved house May last year. I had a look at it a month ago. Must have landed on the aluminium table, 3 of the 4 screws were bent, now I need to find some replacements when I get the shed sorted (9 x 12 mtr).
JohnQ
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