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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Default Herbert Nuttall lathe restoration

    Hey all, Novice machinist here but experienced mechanic/fabricator. I recently got a hold of a old Herbert Nuttall lathe, initial thread about aquiring the machine can be found here://metalworkforums.com/f65/t2017...ting-restoring

    I'll start off with a few pics of it as I received it.
    nutal herbert.jpgAlfred Herbert.jpgbelt guard.jpgbelt guard removed.jpg
    Its build date is 29th July 1942, Back in the day when World War 2 was well underway. I wish the lathe could talk to tell me its story of what its been up to for the last 76 years!
    fr_4413_size640.jpg

    Now unfortunately the bedways have quite abit of damage (scrapes, dents, chips etc) and I considered not going ahead with the project but after some input from the forum I believe even with the damage the majority of the way is still at "original" height and enough to bear the loads and the scrapes etc are just nice cavities to hold a reserve of way oil... that's what I like to tell myself anyway. I was thinking of making up a "burr file" and lightly stoning the ways to remove any high spots/burrs
    Rear way.jpgFront way.jpg

    Since I only have single phase in my workshop, did abit of research and with alot of help from BOBL I think ill be going with a Powtran PI160 2.2kw VFD, the existing motor is a 2HP 1100rpm 3phase but the delta or star connection is within the motor so not so easy to convert to 240v 3phase. Will likely get a 3HP 1400rpm 4pole motor from ConanMotor

    Now ill start off by saying I have alot of other stuff going on atm and the lathe isnt really a priority so it will be a slow process. At this stage im just in the research stage and hence will be starting with a bunch of questions

    1. I plan to strip the machine down as far as possible. is there any parts that I should NOT disassemble at all as they will be very hard to re-assemble and get set up correctly, thinking mainly the head stock off the bed?

    2. The machine has little what I guess is a oil pot above the spindle bearings, I pulled the intact one out and it looks like your supposed to put abit of oil (what type?) around the outside and there is a wick that im guessing through capillary action slowly transfers the oil to the bearings when the machines running so I guess you just need to make sure its always has oil available. as you can see one of of them is damaged. What are these oil pots called and does anywhere sell new ones in the same style?
    oilers.jpg

    3. The machine has a plaque saying "use oil only do not use grease" but there is a bunch of zerk fittings which looked to have a gray grease residue on them (moly grease?) im sure once I open it up ill find if its full of moly grease or oil but yea just abit confused, is it possible someone has replaced most of the oil pots like in question 2 with Zerk fittings and incorrectly used grease? as ive never seen a "oil gun" that can connect and inject oil into a zerk fitting, only other types of oilers ive seen are flat with a little ball you push in a little with a standard oil can.
    oilonly.jpgzerk1.jpgzerks.jpg

    4. Apron functions, Since the lathe is currently not running I cant just test it out but just wondering what are the functions on the carriage apron.
    #1 not sure at all?
    #2 is labelled "sliding" and "surfacing" not sure what that means but turning it one way drops a gear down lower that I can see through the hole in #3 area
    #3 engages that gear from #2 from what I can see so im guessing this is the "half nut" function to engage the power feed?
    #4 is obvious, but just wanted to note it also has a zerk in the center altho its missing the ball and seems to be clogged up.
    saddle.jpg

    Thanks guys, Im not sure whether or not to wait until I have the VFD/Motor going so I can test the lathe out as is... or strip it down straight away and make sure all the internals are good before going any further...

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default

    Okay I'll try and answer in order.

    Don't remove the headstock from the bed.
    Those oilers are called Gitz oilers and are available online.
    Oil guns do exist for zerk fittings but I just use a chainsaw bar oiler full of oil.

    On the apron
    1: engages or disengages the half nuts for screwcutting.
    2: selects longitudinal power feed (sliding feed) and cross feed (surfacing)
    3: drop out clutch for engaging or disengaging selected feed, nice feature on these nuttalls.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Canberra
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    On the subject of oil guns I have just found (& purchased) a pom pom gun made by Pressol on ebay!
    Should be perfect for oiling the lathe throught the grease nipples/zerks!
    I will be trying it out this week and will let you know if it works
    Here is the link
    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F251371696588

    As far as the headstock oilers go, make sure you buy good quality oilers like genuine Gits or Adams (they aren't cheap but they are worth it). Don't be temted to buy el cheapos online as they rarely work properly or even at all!
    You don't want a seized headstock spindle or trashed spindle bearings!

    Great find by the way! I would love to get my hands on an old Nuttall!

  4. #4
    Join Date
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Dural NSW
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    Brazomatic
    I have one of these Pom Pom guns, a different brand to the "Pressol" however it looks the same & has a hollow fitting that looks the same as the "Pressol".
    It works great with oil & couples up with the grease fittings.
    Bruce

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Canberra
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    The wicks are likely to canvas cotton possibly with a felt retainer in the cup itself given the age of the machine. Most industrial supplies will have industrial grade felt (you will need the industrial/engineers grade stuff) and it's not particularly pricey. I suspect it would be fairly easy to make up a wick and felt retainer. You might even be able to buy wick for those old oil lamps! I'm sure I have seen the stuff in ag shops/produce stores over the years. Cut it down to size and away you go! This would be much more cost effective than getting a pair of Adams drip oilers (which would be the cost of your lathe)

    From a quick search on ebay

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F122596366665

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F272991178104


    By the way I read your other thread on the aquisition of this machine. I think you did very well! A little trick that I was shown for tidying up slideways was to use a little bit of mineral turps with a very fine wet stone and run down the ships and dings. It has worked very well for me. I think that in doing this and fixing a few little gremlins (like the oilers) you will have yourself a very capable machine that will run for a very long time for very little oulay!
    Bargain!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Canberra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abratool View Post
    Brazomatic
    I have one of these Pom Pom guns, a different brand to the "Pressol" however it looks the same & has a hollow fitting that looks the same as the "Pressol".
    It works great with oil & couples up with the grease fittings.
    Bruce
    That is excellent to hear! I will be picking mine up this arvo

    Regards

    Matthew

  8. #8
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    Sep 2016
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    Canberra
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    Oh, on the subject of the Gits oil cups, do make sure you measure the thread diameter and pitch. Don't want to buy the cups only to find they have the wrong thread. Given the machines age they will be imperial but exactly what they are I do not know.

  9. #9
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrazOmatic View Post
    On the subject of oil guns I have just found (& purchased) a pom pom gun made by Pressol on ebay!
    Should be perfect for oiling the lathe throught the grease nipples/zerks!
    I will be trying it out this week and will let you know if it works
    Here is the link
    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F251371696588
    That's the same one AB and I got a couple of months back. For some reason it was $5 less.

    Great oiler BTW.

  10. #10
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    Oct 2008
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    Cairns, Q
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperx85 View Post

    https://www.gitsmfg.com/tag/wick-feed/

    https://www.tricocorp.com/product/replacement-wicks/

    I seem to remember that pipe cleaners made good replacement wicks too.

    Regarding oil type for plain bearing headstocks I don't know about Nuttall but many manufacturers used to recommend a light machine oil such as Mobil DTE (Dynamo Turbine and Engine) oil for this purpose. A modern equivalent, I believe, would be either ISO 32 or ISO68 hydraulic oil.

    I would guess that your oilers are probably BSP threads; other Nuttall owners could probably confirm this.

    Frank

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Werribee, Melbourne
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    If you look in the GITS catalog they indicate they can supply with BSP threads and the wick tube added on request (my MACSON from 1946 has 7 oiler points and they are all 1/8" BSP so I suspect this Nuttall would originally have been BSP but you would need to check what the threads are now as anything could have been done in the decades since it was made).

    These are a relatively cheap flip-top oiler over the channel in NZ. I think they are made in India, LPR used to carry them - not super precision but do the job.
    https://toolsnz.com/product/oil-cup-58-dia-18-bsp/
    These are 1/8" BSP thread (parallel, not taper) without a central wick pipe.

    I machined up a couple of push-in tubes and used Xynudu's suggestion of a bent wire instead of a wick for the oil delivery and have been using them successfully on my old Senecca Falls for ages.


    Oiler.jpg

  12. #12
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    Congratulations, you're evil obsession begins ..... now.

    Intimidating as it might seem while you're looking at it now, don't be afraid to consider a full nut-and-bolt on it. It has had 75 years to get crud in everywhere. This machine is older than you and will be here, if cared for, long after we're all gone and are dust. With that in mind, I believe we're kind-of custodians of these machines for a while before handing them on to the next punter - maybe in 40 years time if it proves to be 'your' machine. I know it is your choice, but, as an old-machine keep-it-going weirdo, I say give some consideration to giving it the respect it deserves and doing the full monty. After all, it is a piece of Australian history and a war machine no-less.

    It will be worn, and likely needs some repairs - maybe a lot of repairs. It'll sh*t you off for sure. But when done will also need acquiring some technique to get the most from it. It is kind of a relationship. You'll get to understand the old girl and you'll work together. Think driving an old car. I have a 1941 lathe and feel like I am a better (though still novice) machinist for having to work with an old machine to make stuff and get accuracy. I did a nut-an-bolt on it and am very glad I did - yes it took ages. IMO, the lathe is a center of a workshop and getting to know deeply how your own lathe works makes you make better stuff.

    Remember, everything on this machine can be remade or refurbed. It can even make stuff for itself. Others here will help you. I will help you. If you need gears, you'll find help. If you need grinding, you'll find help. This is a helpful community. Give and take - the big old karmic wheel goes 'round. Everybody wants to see an old lathe made good.

    Re the burr file. Make one - end of story. Working on an old machine it'll be one of the handiest things you have. Period. *Everything* has dings on it and every edge has a lip. Every keyway has raised edges. Every shaft has a mushroomed end. Like me, you'll learn to love your burr file ) It is probably the one bit of kit I always make sure I know where it is - man oh man it is useful. And it is ever-so-cheap to make. A must.

    * If grease has been used instead of oil you may just want to strip it anyways.
    * I got some replacement gits oilers from mcmaster carr US - you'll need a US forwarding address. If you need some 1/4"(6mm) oilers I have some spares - seems Massey Ferguson tractors also use some, and they're cheaper than machine ones ...

    Btw, working on old machines is a journey. Often, you'll need to walk way so you don't punch something or someone (or me). It can be frustrating, but ultimately, very rewarding. And you can anticipate help here.

    "go on, you know you want to"

    And again, well done on your purchase. I can sense you are happy which is great.

    Greg.

    PS.. If you need some industrial felt, I have a shed load of 4mm. And a supplier nearby.
    Last edited by StrayAlien; 23rd Jul 2018 at 10:40 PM. Reason: typos

  13. #13
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    Apr 2018
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    Found them on McMaster-Carr but the wick versions are almost 3x the price of the non wick ones at $40USD
    https://www.mcmaster.com/#oilers/=1dulx5w

    Found the wick versions on the GitsMfgCo website thanks to Frank and have contacted them for a price.
    https://www.gitsmfg.com/style-c-brazed/

    On the subject, how do the non wick versions work? as in what stops the oil from just emptying out straight away? is the outlet hole very small and it rely's on the viscosity of the oil to slowly drip the oil out? what happens if you do not use the lathe for a long time (I suppose this goes for the wick versions too) do they "flow" regardless? or does the spinning of the bearings have an effect to make them meter out oil when its needed?

    Backup is the toolsNZ.com versions at $4.00 each but BrazOmatic said not to go for elcheapo ones as they sometimes don't work, which leads me to believe there is more going on in them then just a simple reservoir with a hole in the bottom?

    Thanks Greg, I do feel the machine is very special being so old and will be giving it the respect it deserves,stripping it down as far as possible is the plan I do really enjoy that part of the process and really understanding how a machine works. (I usually restore old cars)

    I don't suppose if anyone knows the original paint color of Nuttals? Not sure if the green is the original color or not.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by caskwarrior View Post
    On the apron
    1: engages or disengages the half nuts for screwcutting.
    2: selects longitudinal power feed (sliding feed) and cross feed (surfacing)
    3: drop out clutch for engaging or disengaging selected feed, nice feature on these nuttalls.
    Your saying this has power feed on the cross feed as well? Nice! didn't realize that

  15. #15
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    Aug 2015
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    Good on you for giving it a go. )

    Re 'oil flow out' of oiler cups. I pop a small bit of felt in the bottom. Slows the flow, but yes, it will just run out after a while. No bad thing to get some oil flowing, flushes stuff.

    Re the colour, you may find when you pull it apart that you'll find some original colour here and there. Give it a rub with some auto cutting paste to clean it up and then get that colour matched. Wont be perfect, but might be pretty close. I have used a paint-spot outlet that does industrial paints and they'll do colour matching. I recently did exactly as described for a bridgeport and although the colour was maybe not exact - I actually preferred the matched colour over the original. )

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