Thread: Metalmaster AL330A Owners

The detents (if they are from the camlock) are actually located in the spindle on the machine. If you look at a camlock spindle, a little way around from the square sockets are screws. Undo those and the detents should be behind them. If they are missing it should not be a major deal as their main purpose is to hold the cams in the 'unlock' position when unlocked so that the spindle can be turned without the cams falling back into place and making it more difficult to remove a chuck.

Michael

Originally Posted by Hunch

you need two hands on the carriage handwheel to move it, thought feed lever might be engaged, but no! Should require a finger to spin it from one end of the bed to the other Same symptoms as my 12 x 36 steelmaster when it bent the drive pinion.

Amazingly found what looks like spring-loaded detents in the pan, that didn't get thrown out with the magnetic wand debris clean out, nothing seems to show up on the grizzly parts G4003 breakdown, anyone recognize them as being part of the machine? I cannot speak about detent springs in the headstock but found a single spring detent that allows the original tool post to align square after rotation .It only rotated in one direction.EDIT Reading following posts the the source of the spring detents sounds like a better explanation.

All the oils were no doubt original too, lots of sand and filings in the headstock as per Chinese practice. The rear spindle bearing, If there is no sand and casting flash in the headstock sump-SEND IT BACK- its not a normal Chinese lathe.

IF the problem is a bent pinion spindle-it is the pinion that engages the rack under the longitudinal ways- it will be possibly caused when the flat cover spring shielding the feed screw - pops out of its socket sitting forward of where it should be.

When the lathe is used on auto feed, the spring compresses-( and then, if out of its true postion) becomes an incompressible solid and the lathe crashes against it to SAVE the 20 cent shear pin and thereby bending the pinion.

If you can manage to move the travel wheel at all, it will be tight then loose then tight again as the carriage moves.Thats the dead giveaway.

It is an absolute B of a job to remove the shear pin, move the carriage and then remove the pinion.Then the carriage has to be moved to the RH end on the ways to enable the one piece pinion and shaft to be removed as it can only be removed that way.

My lathe pinion was available as a spare - it was a 11 tooth - pinion shaft was 16mm diam x 120.5mm long including pinion gear. Pinion gear length itself is 31mm.
The spare supplied was not drilled. From memory the shear pin was tapered.

It is possibly a maybe or a could be, but worth checking out. I did a write up around ten years or so back and posted with pics on the forum but I think it was lost in a programe crash. I have attached a photo taken at the time,viewed from the top, with the lid removed from the apron.The apron had been eased off the lathe .You can see the amount of bend in the pinion spindle by the uneven gap between lathe body and pinion.

I sincerely hope for you and your mate, that this is not the case and the cause is something else and simple to fix.

Cheers

Grahame

Lathe travel pinion 2.jpg

Wow that's annoying, everything disappeared somehow.....and two goes to get this up now too!

Originally Posted by Michael G

The detents (if they are from the camlock) are actually located in the spindle on the machine. If you look at a camlock spindle, a little way around from the square sockets are screws. Undo those and the detents should be behind them. If they are missing it should not be a major deal as their main purpose is to hold the cams in the 'unlock' position when unlocked so that the spindle can be turned without the cams falling back into place and making it more difficult to remove a chuck.

Michael

I see them now in the parts breakdown, thought there must have been something under the shcs for the pin adjustment on the backing plate. Bit intrigued now where I've seen them in the last 5 or 10 years, as none of the lathes here have that arrangement and usually a 3 or 4 jaw chuck lives on each machine, so little chance to undo the cam and lose them, hmmm.

Originally Posted by Graham Collins

IF the problem is a bent pinion spindle-it is the pinion that engages the rack under the longitudinal ways- it will be possibly caused when the flat cover spring shielding the feed screw - pops out of its socket sitting forward of where it should be.

When the lathe is used on auto feed, the spring compresses-( and then, if out of its true postion) becomes an incompressible solid and the lathe crashes against it to SAVE the 20 cent shear pin and thereby bending the pinion.

If you can manage to move the travel wheel at all, it will be tight then loose then tight again as the carriage moves.Thats the dead giveaway.

It is an absolute B of a job to remove the shear pin, move the carriage and then remove the pinion.Then the carriage has to be moved to the RH end on the ways to enable the one piece pinion and shaft to be removed as it can only be removed that way.

My lathe pinion was available as a spare - it was a 11 tooth - pinion shaft was 16mm diam x 120.5mm long including pinion gear. Pinion gear length itself is 31mm.
The spare supplied was not drilled. From memory the shear pin was tapered.

It is possibly a maybe or a could be, but worth checking out. I did a write up around ten years or so back and posted with pics on the forum but I think it was lost in a programe crash. I have attached a photo taken at the time,viewed from the top, with the lid removed from the apron.The apron had been eased off the lathe .You can see the amount of bend in the pinion spindle by the uneven gap between lathe body and pinion.

I sincerely hope for you and your mate, that this is not the case and the cause is something else and simple to fix.

Cheers

Grahame

Attachment 377423

I don't believe there was a leadscrew guard on this machine - or it's been removed, chuck guard still in place suggests it unmolested, probably need someone who has owned one from new? Hard to say if there's a tight/loose aspect of the handwheel, maybe 1/8th to 1/4 turn might be slightly easier, just. There is an oversize roll pin retaining the wheel and a very slight ding in the swarf pan parallel with the bed axis, suggesting someone has had a play and there might have been a whoops, somewhere along the line at the defunct mechanical workshop.

H&F seemed remarkably unenthusiastic last time about support, hopefully if it is that, not a huge pita to obtain!

Thankfully I'm away today, no need to concern myself with dismantling the thing just yet, I've told him not to be rash with hammers and chisels, if he does get a rush of blood.

Originally Posted by Michael G

If they are missing it should not be a major deal as their main purpose is to hold the cams in the 'unlock' position when unlocked so that the spindle can be turned without the cams falling back into place and making it more difficult to remove a chuck.

Except they also hold the cams in the spindle, so do not run the lathe without a chuck on or the cams may remove themselves.

Hunch, A few long shots first, I'd try loosening the two bolts on the bottom of the apron that hold the bracket for the worm gear on the power feed shaft and see if that improves things. If that doesn't do it try removing the two bolts that hold the FWD/REV lever to the side of the apron(this may drain the gearbox). If that still doesn't free it up, its time to pull the shafts out and drop the apron off as I don't think you can get at all the front "gib*" bolts while its on and at least then you'll know if the problem is in the apron or the carriage. Its a pretty quick job and I'm guessing far quicker if there are two people.

p.s. It would appear somewhere along the line that someone has scraped the cross slide.
pretty sure my lathe has a hole going to the back bearing, but that wouldnt seem to be an issue.

*I say gib but I'm not so sure they are technically gibs. "the plates that stop the carriage lifting and are used for the carriage lock" them things

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hunch, A few long shots first, I'd try loosening the two bolts on the bottom of the apron that hold the bracket for the worm gear on the power feed shaft and see if that improves things. If that doesn't do it try removing the two bolts that hold the FWD/REV lever to the side of the apron(this may drain the gearbox). If that still doesn't free it up, its time to pull the shafts out and drop the apron off as I don't think you can get at all the front "gib*" bolts while its on and at least then you'll know if the problem is in the apron or the carriage. Its a pretty quick job and I'm guessing far quicker if there are two people.

p.s. It would appear somewhere along the line that someone has scraped the cross slide.
pretty sure my lathe has a hole going to the back bearing, but that wouldnt seem to be an issue.

*I say gib but I'm not so sure they are technically gibs. "the plates that stop the carriage lifting and are used for the carriage lock" them things

Back in town - not too happy to go into an airless nook in a shed that's likely mid 40s at the moment....have to wait for a southerly before I venture back there.

Good tips on possible shortcuts there! Yes, might be a stretch to call the things on the saddle gibs.....was a trifle surprised with the scraping on something from China, mentioned it to the owner, he just gave a quizzical look and shrugged.

Bill.

As a follow up, did fix the stiffness a couple of months back. It was simply because the carriage handwheel vernier was on back to front and somehow binding it up. The spring detents were reinstalled, not sure why you'd remove them in the first place as it makes finding the spot where the camlocks disengage a bit of a pita.

H&F didn't seem at all interested in support of these things the other day, but there was a bit of a throng at the counter with the sale, so my mate will likely go via grizzly if his Chinese source doesn't come good.

Tailstock is NLA, but a G4002 model will work apparently for just over $200US if he's prepared to wait a couple of months. https://www.grizzly.com/parts/Grizzl...STOCK/P4002704 Oddly the G4003 "gunsmithing lathe", which you would think is the brother of this machine, the tailstock there is over 500 bucks, can't imagine what would bump the price that much! https://www.grizzly.com/parts/Grizzl...BLY/P4003G0701

picked this one up a couple of weeks ago,wasnt going to but another lathe but the price and condition of it was too good to let go ,came with steadies ,4 jaw chuck,gears tooling .stand ,even a lot of stock .all the books etc.....bob, its now in place ,up and running in my shed

Is this just a buy and sell type thing or have you been incorrectly diagnosed.

Nice condition, odd the apron isn't painted!

The wooden addition to the swarf tray is for a leaks out of the apron or just making it easier to clean? The height of those knobs, I would have thought would interfere with the engage lever - in a feed condition at least. A mate limited the total loss oiling system on his with a 10mm dowty seal after teflon tape, copper washers and o rings all failed to do the job.

Originally Posted by Hunch

Nice condition, odd the apron isn't painted!

The wooden addition to the swarf tray is for a leaks out of the apron or just making it easier to clean? The height of those knobs, I would have thought would interfere with the engage lever - in a feed condition at least. A mate limited the total loss oiling system on his with a 10mm dowty seal after teflon tape, copper washers and o rings all failed to do the job.

makes it very easy to clean, slide it to the right then pull out,straight into bin,the knobs are nowhere near the feed lever the photo make it look that way ,and dont get oil leak (yet) and what is odd about aprin not painted? , this is what they came like,well most of them as far as I can see,the one that started this post isnt painted
...bob