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Thread: Long Angle Lathe file ?
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13th May 2018, 11:44 PM #1Senior Member
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Long Angle Lathe file ?
Up until I read about the Long Angle Lathe file, I thought any file would be suitable for lathe work. Do any members have experience with these files they would like to share?
Thanks
Tom
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14th May 2018, 01:40 AM #2Most Valued Member
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I've NOT had any experience with them, until I started reading Machining and Fitting that I'd bought, I thought the same as you??
From what I've read, Lathe files cut a lot finer, basically a mill file is a Bastard file in comparison.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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14th May 2018, 07:15 AM #3Philomath in training
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They work and are a nice to have sort of thing for the reasons mentioned in that JPEG, but are not essential. A normal file will work fine but may clog more easily. I still use things like a half round when there is not enough clearance for the lathe file.
More important when using a file on the lathe is technique. The handle should be held in the left hand and the tip with the right. if you do it the other way round then your left arm is sitting over the top of a rotating chuck. If you have a sleeve on that is particularly hazardous.
Michael
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14th May 2018, 12:39 PM #4Senior Member
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I have had long angle lathe files for many years and concur that they are nice to have but not essential. Filing on a lathe is among the purists, frowned upon. However in our home workshops filing can be a way of getting a finish nearly comparable with a cylindrical grinder with a small loss in perfect roundness. One way in which a very smooth finish can be achieved with a file is to flatten the face of a new standard Mill file of good brand, such as Nichilson, with an oil stone, a few strokes is all that is necessary to knock off any potential high spots which will cause scratches. With the sides of the file ground off so that they do not act on any flanges of the piece being filed and the file drenched with coolant or oil, the finish achievable can be pretty good. Depending on the material and finish off the lathe tool an allowance of about 1 thou to 1/2 a thou is usually sufficient and will result in minimum deviation from true circularity. A file I doctored 20 years ago still works well on the few times I have resorted to using it, it is not used for anything else.
Peter
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14th May 2018, 01:57 PM #5Senior Member
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Lathe files are very nice to have. I've found that they cut more evenly and predictably on the lathe than normal files, without that tendency to rapidly fill and skate over the work ruining the surface finish (not that a file should ever be contributing to a fine surface finish), and they stay on an outside corner more predictably. They are single cut, often a "longer" angle, and are fine.
Blackwoods currently list a 12 inch at $38.00. I recently got three 10 inchers for $5 each from Total Tools in Perth. They were in a specials bin because presumably no one knew what they were.
Graham.
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14th May 2018, 04:07 PM #6Golden Member
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I have collected a few of these "lathe style" files over the years, they are often hard to find and are sometimes referred to "flat smooth" or just "smooth". They are very handy to use on steel that is of an unknown grade that you cannot get a decent finish on for a press or bearing fit, they unable you to achieve a smooth even finish that you can finish with emery or wet & dry paper. Very handy tool for the lathe or mill. The files shown range in size from 150mm to 350mm in length. The largest one is an Australian made Wilkinson and is described as a Flat Smooth, all the other files are German made PFERD
Bob
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14th May 2018, 06:15 PM #7Senior Member
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The three I have are all Nicholsons, one made in Canada and has 'Lathe File Fine' engraved; the next is made in Australia and has 'Mill Long Angle Lathe" engraved: and the third made in Brazil has 'Lathe File Fine' engraved. My "doctored" mill file is another Nicholson made in USA and engraved 'Mill Smooth' The 'Lathe' files have a steeper angle than the standard files have which gives a finer sheer action and if applied heavily to a spinning shaft in the lathe tend to pull to the right more than the standard ones. The ones in krisfarm's photo appear to be of standard angle and would be very suited to a bit of 'doctoring' as outlined in my previous post as they are of good quality. I once bought a few files made in India and swore Never Again!
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14th May 2018, 06:17 PM #8
I have 2 X 12" lathe files.
They were picked up at the markets in the $5 file tray. As you alluded to, with the sharper angle, they are easy to pick if you are looking out for them.
The file will clean up ok in vinegar but rinse well in water after the acid treatment.
After cleaning they both work quite well.
I looked for the longest length I could find at hold the handle (make sure it has one) in my left hand and hold the file end, with my right hand, out beyond the chuck diameter ensuring the chuck jaw lobes won't hit the end and drive the file back at me.
My main use is for knocking off the sharp corner on a square shoulder.
If someone is stupid enough not to fit a handle the tang could very well be driven back into the palm or wrist with great force.
Grahame
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14th May 2018, 07:45 PM #9Senior Member
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14th May 2018, 07:55 PM #10
You'd be surprised....
Cheers, JoeCheers, Joe
retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....
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14th May 2018, 08:10 PM #11Senior Member
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Vice grips and safety squints.
Duh!
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14th May 2018, 08:30 PM #12
Maybe it is just me?
Though I am a natural right-hander, I felt distinctly uncomfortable in holding the file, in the natural way, as it brought my body over the top of the spinning chuck. It did not seem comfortable or safe.
Holding the file in the manner described over the spinning chuck is much safer in my humble opinion.
I am interested to know how machinists are trained to perform this operation.
Grahame
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14th May 2018, 09:43 PM #13Golden Member
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Hi Peter & Graham
Thanks for the information on the different descriptions that are on your files, after reading your posts I thought it would be worth measuring the cutting angle on my files. The PFRD files teeth are all the same angle 60 degrees, the largest file the Wilkinson is 64 degrees. I then measured a mixed selection of brands of other "standard" files flat and half round and found the angle varied between brands between 65-70 degrees. If you can I would be interested in files angle.
Bob
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14th May 2018, 10:24 PM #14Banned
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I'm definitely not a purist going on this thread. I find files great for exact sizing, them and emery. No matter how hard I try, after cutting and measuring diameter along the length of cut there are always high and low spots. Granted they are miniscule, but when doing sliding fits sizing is very important. I always file over the top of the chuck, mainly because I am a real right hander, the left is nothing but a useless appendagke, I never wear loose sleeves on the lathe and of course it has a chuck guard. I didn't even know there were lathe files, might have to invest in one though, normal files don't last too long when used on a lathe.
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14th May 2018, 10:56 PM #15Senior Member
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Bob,
I have just measured my files and the three lathe files are all 45 degrees. the doctored mill file is 65 degrees. I have many other 'normal' flat files and all are round the 65-70 degree mark. Of course there are others such as double cut etc which would not be of much use on a lathe. One way to get a smoother finish on a lathe piece involves abrasive cloth or wet & dry backed by the file but I am very loathe to have abrasive material anywhere near to my lathes. It is very difficult to protect the ways properly and to prevent ablated abrasive particles migrating to the saddle ways and forming a lapping medium. This especially goes for a tool post grinder. I might add that with small diameter/short length items it is pretty difficult to finish grind with a cylindrical grinder even if you have one so a doctored file is sometimes a viable alternative. I have some test pieces representing milled/turned/filed/ground and lapped samples so of course the lapped samples are the pick but expert filed finish on a turned piece is not too far behind a ground piece and certainly better than a turned piece as far as finish goes. On the other side of the coin dimension wise it is probably the worse! The old time mold makers were capable of filing to a pretty good finish.
Peter
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