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  1. #1
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    Default Are the more expensive Hafco mills any better?

    Better than their cheaper mill drills or Hm-50s?

    I'm thinking especially of a https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M595D when they have their sale this year.

  2. #2
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    Sep 2012
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    Hi, That looks to be a well specified mill. A couple of firms in the UK sell a similar mill, minus all the accessories that are listed there. It seems that here all those items are extras, used as a method of pushing up the price. Thing to do is to go and have a good look at one.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  3. #3
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    Nov 2008
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    Brisbane Australia
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  4. #4
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    Yeah good mill on paper but are the chinese models respectable mills? PDW around?

    Marcus just told me it's a bit of a luck of the draw. Might hold out for a Euro mill after all.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2013
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    Laidley, SE Qld
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    I've had a Hafpos HM52 for a few years, its one rung below the BM23. The main drawback of the HM52 is a lack of rigidity which limits its abilities, I don't think the design of the BM23 is going to make it any more rigid than the HM52.

  6. #6
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    Aug 2006
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    Would a series 1 Bridgeport be a better machine?

  7. #7
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    Jun 2011
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    Australia east coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3dprints View Post
    Better than their cheaper mill drills or Hm-50s?

    I'm thinking especially of a https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M595D when they have their sale this year.
    The specs look good but it all depends on the QC. You need to take a close look, preferably at the machine you're actually going to buy.

    The work envelope is about the same as my B/port except I have a heavier geared power table feed (X axis only) and a lighter spindle - mine is R8. I regard the NT30 taper as a marked improvement.

    All this class of machine are pretty flexible - they're designed for versatility not as metal hogs. OTOH they *are* really versatile and quite capable machines. I've got a great deal of use out of my B/port over the years and I'm still happy with it 20 years after I bought it. I just don't try to run bigger than 75mm diameter face mills and I severely limit the depth of cut in steel, especially the tougher steels.

    On paper that machine looks like it can do the job - assuming what you want to do fits in its work envelope. You can fit a riser block to them to get more Z clearance and that is useful on occasion. Never needed to myself but it's been really close on occasion.

    Used machines are also a crap-shoot of course. I really like the Kondia turret mills FWIW. The TAFE colleges used to have quite a few of them with 40 taper spindles.

    PDW

  8. #8
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    Apr 2008
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    NSW
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    These Chinese mills are very roughly made inside. Be prepared for break downs and doing some repair work . The Power feed will pack it in in a year or two and some bearings will fail or make noises . Motor capacitors are cheap rubbish and do break down . Once you iron out the bugs they run ok and can do some decent work .
    Lack of rigidity is not a huge issue in these machines for a home hobby user as you will not be machining super hard stuff or making deep cuts in general .
    The geared heads are noisy though . Mine is a belt driven head and I don't mind it at all as it's quiet and forgiving if you lock up a cutter .
    A Bridgeport is always a better made machine than this Hafco but they usually have R8 spindles and that can make finding tool holders harder than say having an NT 30 spindle . Would I swap my Hafco mill for a Bridgeport probably yes .
    The volume of a pizza of thickness 'a' and radius 'z' is given by pi z z a.

  9. #9
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retromilling View Post
    A Bridgeport is always a better made machine than this Hafco but they usually have R8 spindles and that can make finding tool holders harder than say having an NT 30 spindle . Would I swap my Hafco mill for a Bridgeport probably yes .
    R8 tooling is easy to find and reasonably priced. It's just inferior for tool holding to ISO 30 or 40.

    Yeah a *new* Bridgeport is going to be a lot better built than a new Hafco copy. But where are you going to get one and how much would you be paying?

    A used B/port may or may not be better - it's a crap shoot. There are some really good turret type mills that are much better & heavier than the B/ports anyway. Kondia for example. The British made Beaver.

    For that sort of money, unless I needed a mill right now for a business purpose ie paying work, I'd probably hang off and look for a really good used machine that I could try before buying. You're in Deckel FP2 price range there and I know which one I'd take in a heartbeat - assuming you could find a Deckel for sale.

    I thought ceiling height ruled out these types of turret mills anyway.

    PDW

  10. #10
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    Given the number of good turret mills out there that come up for sale, it is not worth buying new if you are handy with a VFD as most of them are three phase.

    I would get a good turret mill before anything Euro. Their is a reason why there is a brazillion turret mills out there and not a lot of Euro ones. Not that there is anything wrong with Euro mills, but you will pay a premium just for the name alone, and if you need spare parts, good luck. Meanwhile most turret mill parts are on ebay, and accessories are there as well. Need a riser block or a horizontal attachment. No problems.

    My turret mill would be about equivalent to the H&F ones. It is not perfect, but I would not want to be without it.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  11. #11
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    Aug 2011
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    Melbourne
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    The pros and cons of buying a new chinese mill (albeit upper market Chinese) over a S/H Taiwanese, or bridgeport or one of the better clones has been discussed many times. My first (and current) mill is a Chinese 45 size mill. It's been OK but I have spent a bit of time and some money on it over the last 5 or so years. I now have a pacific FTV-2 bridgeport clone and while it definately needs work, I now have the luxury of using one mill to fix the second. It also has worn ways which, unless you have the skills, knowledge and tools, it is near impossible to fix. But, I am working towards satisfying those requirements too. One thing is for sure, once my pacific is up and running, I will sell my Chinese 45 mill and I won't really miss it. The quality and mass difference between these two mills is like chaulk and cheese. I can only hope that the higher price tag of these more expensive Chinese mills corresponds to superior quality. It's one thing to spend $2500 on a mill that needs work but to spend nearly 8K on a machine that needs the same amount of work/TLC would be very disappointing.

    I think RC is correct, There is a glut of good turret mills on the market ATM. I wouldn't call mine "good" but I paid $1200 for it. I have seen quite a few similar mills in what seem to be better condition for around the 3K mark. Worth a look if they are in the same state, or interstate if, like me you love a road trip!

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Given the number of good turret mills out there that come up for sale, it is not worth buying new if you are handy with a VFD as most of them are three phase.

    I would get a good turret mill before anything Euro. Their is a reason why there is a brazillion turret mills out there and not a lot of Euro ones.
    Agree. I just did a quick eBay search and quite a few decent looking turret mills popped up. Unfortunately for the OP they're all a long way from him.

    Eurotrash mills are fine but relatively scarce & expensive even if (especially if) there isn't much wear. The Deckel FP2 has a lot less X travel than my B/port as well though it does have 3 axis power feeds. I wouldn't hang out waiting for one to appear rather than buy a B/port type myself.

    I'd avoid the variable speed heads on the turret mills myself. They are a lot more finicky and a PITA to work on compared to the straight stepped pulley heads and if you add a VFD, there isn't much gain WRT flexibility anyway.

    PDW

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob ward View Post
    I've had a Hafpos HM52 for a few years, its one rung below the BM23. The main drawback of the HM52 is a lack of rigidity which limits its abilities, I don't think the design of the BM23 is going to make it any more rigid than the HM52.
    I checked out the BM22 today alongside the HM52 and they indeed look very similar in terms of size and mass, the BM22 having some more mass down below. Perhaps it's in the NT30 spindle? Although I wonder how well those internals are made, how thick the castings are, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    The pros and cons of buying a new chinese mill (albeit upper market Chinese) over a S/H Taiwanese, or bridgeport or one of the better clones has been discussed many times. My first (and current) mill is a Chinese 45 size mill. It's been OK but I have spent a bit of time and some money on it over the last 5 or so years. I now have a pacific FTV-2 bridgeport clone and while it definately needs work, I now have the luxury of using one mill to fix the second. It also has worn ways which, unless you have the skills, knowledge and tools, it is near impossible to fix. But, I am working towards satisfying those requirements too. One thing is for sure, once my pacific is up and running, I will sell my Chinese 45 mill and I won't really miss it. The quality and mass difference between these two mills is like chaulk and cheese. I can only hope that the higher price tag of these more expensive Chinese mills corresponds to superior quality. It's one thing to spend $2500 on a mill that needs work but to spend nearly 8K on a machine that needs the same amount of work/TLC would be very disappointing.

    I think RC is correct, There is a glut of good turret mills on the market ATM. I wouldn't call mine "good" but I paid $1200 for it. I have seen quite a few similar mills in what seem to be better condition for around the 3K mark. Worth a look if they are in the same state, or interstate if, like me you love a road trip!

    Simon
    Haha, I do like a roadtrip, and I have holidays coming up. But how much does transporting one interstate cost?
    How much more rigid is your knee mill than your 45?
    There are $5000-$6000 bport clones in Brisbane

    My ceiling is exactly 2200 tall, 2300 in some parts and the doorway to get a mill in is 1790 tall. The Hafcos are 2200 tall, some other clones are taller. I think a bridgeport folded down would be under 1800 (I'd check first).

  14. #14
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    Jul 2014
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    Alphen aan den Rijn, Netherlands
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3dprints View Post
    My ceiling is exactly 2200 tall, 2300 in some parts and the doorway to get a mill in is 1790 tall. The Hafcos are 2200 tall, some other clones are taller. I think a bridgeport folded down would be under 1800 (I'd check first).
    I hope you have realised you may need a little work height above the head? For example when you need to remove/change the drawbar. For example, I need to change the drawbar when I want to use the right angle attachment on my Bridgeport. If it would just fit beneath the ceiling I would need to tilt the head and loose the tram of the head.

    Peter

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3dprints View Post
    I checked out the BM22 today alongside the HM52 and they indeed look very similar in terms of size and mass, the BM22 having some more mass down below. Perhaps it's in the NT30 spindle? Although I wonder how well those internals are made, how thick the castings are, etc.


    Haha, I do like a roadtrip, and I have holidays coming up. But how much does transporting one interstate cost?
    How much more rigid is your knee mill than your 45?
    There are $5000-$6000 bport clones in Brisbane

    My ceiling is exactly 2200 tall, 2300 in some parts and the doorway to get a mill in is 1790 tall. The Hafcos are 2200 tall, some other clones are taller. I think a bridgeport folded down would be under 1800 (I'd check first).
    I'm yet to use my bridgeport clone but given that i'm going from a mill that weighs about 400Kg with a MT4 spindle to a mill that weighs 1200Kg with an NT40 spindle I'm tipping lots more rigid.

    WRT the road trip, it cost me fuel and the hire of a Bunnings tandem trailer. I didn't pay accomodation as I slept in my swag in a bush reserve on the foot of the blue mountains. I didn't end up paying for the Bunnings trailer as it had suspension issues that I fixed myself on the side of the hume freeway halfway to sydney so they gave me a refund!

    I've done two such road trips now, one for my surface grinder and now one for the mill. My wife thinks I'm mad but she finds it amusing!

    I've forgotten how high my mill is, maybe 2000mm, 2200 with the riser block, which I have removed (for now).

    I agree about the variable speed head. Now real need for it if you intend running it through a VFD and yes, they have wear parts that need replacing from time to time so more maintenance. Although in home use I can't see it receiving a huge amount of wear compared to in industry.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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