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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    59
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    Default Desert island machines

    My quest for work is looking more like it is going to take me away from home but my machines being the size they are will be staying here with the rest of the family. It has me thinking about small machines and what is available, so as a general question, what would members have if restricted to small machine tools?
    Parameters are -
    • run off 10A (can include a VFD but basically must not require anything more than a 10A outlet)
    • small and light enough they can be carried by one or two people and moved in the boot/ back seat of a car - basically bench top stuff
    • not require items of tooling (such as propriety collets) that are not readily available
    • have enough power and rigidity that they do not struggle cutting common materials like steel
    • similarly, have basic features such as screw cutting on the lathe and a quill on the mill (although power feeds are in the 'nice to have' category)
    • finally, be reasonably priced and a value for money proposition (as some brands command higher prices due to reputation).


    I've been investigating Emco/ Unimat lathes and if I could find one small enough, an Arboga drill/ mill. Combi machines (lathe/ mill in one machine) are possible but have usually looked awkward to me. Work to be done on them is likely to be machine parts/ tooling plus steam models, so typical materials would be CI, brass, steel, plastic etc. For me, second hand is probably preferable to new for several reasons.

    So brands and models please (and if you have seen an example out there, a PM just in case I do end up needing it...) By all means tell your other halves that you need to visit those secondhand machine shops, not for yourself but because another member has asked for help

    Michael

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    My quest for work is looking more like it is going to take me away from home but my machines being the size they are will be staying here with the rest of the family. It has me thinking about small machines and what is available, so as a general question, what would members have if restricted to small machine tools?
    Parameters are -
    • run off 10A (can include a VFD but basically must not require anything more than a 10A outlet)
    • small and light enough they can be carried by one or two people and moved in the boot/ back seat of a car - basically bench top stuff
    • not require items of tooling (such as propriety collets) that are not readily available
    • have enough power and rigidity that they do not struggle cutting common materials like steel
    • similarly, have basic features such as screw cutting on the lathe and a quill on the mill (although power feeds are in the 'nice to have' category)
    • finally, be reasonably priced and a value for money proposition (as some brands command higher prices due to reputation).


    I've been investigating Emco/ Unimat lathes and if I could find one small enough, an Arboga drill/ mill. Combi machines (lathe/ mill in one machine) are possible but have usually looked awkward to me. Work to be done on them is likely to be machine parts/ tooling plus steam models, so typical materials would be CI, brass, steel, plastic etc. For me, second hand is probably preferable to new for several reasons.

    So brands and models please (and if you have seen an example out there, a PM just in case I do end up needing it...) By all means tell your other halves that you need to visit those secondhand machine shops, not for yourself but because another member has asked for help

    Michael
    You didn't state work envelope desired and without that advice is pretty useless.

    However an Emco Maximat 11 lathe and an Emco FB-2 mill wouldn't be bad choices. I have a Maximat 11 so I can speak as to its qualities - first class machine. It's not for sale either. I've never used an FB-2 mill but had my hands on one. It *looks* like a drill-mill and is but the quality is way ahead of the Chinese stuff. You can actually move the head up/down without losing tram, for example, even though it's a round column.

    A 2 person lift on the mill would work. The Maximat lathe - not really. IIRC it's 180 kg. 2 of us did lift one into the back of my utility 17 years ago when I bought it but I was a lot stupider then.

    The earlier Maximats were a DIN spindle nose same as D1-3 except stud mount and 25mm bore. Later versions were D1-4 and 35mm bore. None of them are cheap. The mills use a standard 2MT collet and the rigidity is in line. Fine machines but you're not going to hog off metal with them.

    The Maximat was made as a combo machine with the mill head mounted on the back of the bed but really, unless you're very, very space-limited, I'd never do this.

    Hate to say it because the spindle bores are pathetic and the rest of the machine is pretty lightweight but a Hercus might be about the best you can do WRT work envelope and weight, if weight is going to be one of the critical items.

    FWIW if I have to shrink my shop (assisted living scenario) I'll keep my Emco Maximat lathe and my Romanian toolroom mill. Both single phase. The mill is approx 500kg and you've got a much better chance of finding a pristine Deckel FP1 than one of these - in fact except for the weight limits I'd suggest a FP1. Perhaps you need a custom trailer machine shop?

    I'd do everything I could to keep my Kearns S type HBM into assisted living as well. Not sure I'd like my chances though.

    PDW

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southern Highlands NSW
    Posts
    1,894

    Default

    A nine inch Hercus is not difficult to take apart and reassemble, helped by having a self-aligning headstock.
    Then one person can handle it.

    Jordan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    I have a Myford and Its a pretty good machine for its size but they are simply not worth what they go for on the second hand market, I paid about $600 for mine sealed in its shipping crate. I would pay $900 tops. I would offer it to you but its with my father in law for the duration unfortunately. The lack of power cross feed and tiny 7/8" bore is annoying. I had my hands on a small Herless taiwanese unit that a toolmaker friend owns and its really quite nice, graduated in imperial and metric, great speed range and 30mm bore. also 5C spindle nose in D 1-3. Might be worth looking at if any come up.

    How far away are you going, might help us turn some other options up, dig in classifieds etc.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    You didn't state work envelope desired and without that advice is pretty useless.
    I did think about a work envelope but thought that the size criteria would pretty much dictate that. Really, as big as I can manage. I would like as a minimum say 7" diameter by 15" for the lathe and say 4"x4"x8" minimum on a mill. It's a bit fluid because I think finding a decent quality small machine will trump any particular size.

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    ... if weight is going to be one of the critical items.
    The parameters are the targets - like the work envelopes, if slightly more weight is a trade-off to get say a small pristine Hardinge then maybe that's a price that I have to pay.

    At the moment I'm just interested in what people would suggest. Deckel and Maximat are on the list though.

    Hercus and Myford are two that I thought about but the asking price is usually buoyed by the name.

    As far as destination, at the moment there is nothing firm but I have applications in that would put me in regional centres, sufficiently far from state capitals that a casual trip just to check out what is around is not on the cards. Anything sourced will be either by word of mouth or online someway.

    Michael

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
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    Default

    It's a pity you didn't pick up that boley-leinen!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,216

    Default

    Here you go. Tow it behind the car/bike/truck.

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...rch-wheels.jpg
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Here you go. Tow it behind the car/bike/truck.

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...rch-wheels.jpg
    hahahahahaha

    Michael....if'n it was me going to a desert island then i would be thinking fishing, booze, card games, aaaannnnd franga's

    bugger the metal work but each to his own.

    good luck with it, shed

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
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    5,080

    Default

    I guess it's just something to while away the hours doing something creative. I'd be thinking a wood lathe, or take up carving coconut shells?

    If it's to feed an addiction to metal, maybe a box full of files.

    Seriously tho, have a look here, mini-lathe.com home page what's the lathe that click spring uses? is it a sherline?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Townsville, Tropical Nth Qld.
    Posts
    225

    Default

    Michael, I have 2 Emcos and as PDW said they are not light at all. The 2nd one only arrived 3 weeks ago and we only moved it into the holding area, greased it and tarped it up for later. I am going to have to rethink getting the 1st one out and getting the newer one in, cause its heavy.
    Rgds,
    Crocy.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    Default Reset...

    The title 'desert island machines' is an oblique reference to a UK radio program (desert island discs) where guests had to nominate what discs (recordings) they would want to listen to if they were marooned on a desert island. Usually the guest tells a story behind the selection so the audience knows why they have chosen what they have.

    I do not intend to be marooned on a desert island and so will not be carving coconuts or playing endless games of patience with a dog eared pack. I do think though that if I have to move intra/inter state without my family, contacts and usual past times it will feel a bit like being marooned. The periods away from my workshop are likely to be measured in months at a time (& limited when I do get in there) and I would like to keep my eye in if possible. The restrictions are purely because I will likely be in rental accommodation, may need to move and not have much space.

    What I would like is suggestions from others of the types of machines they would like to have if subject to the types of constraints listed in the first post, as that may provide me some directions to look in and broaden my search. Being a fan of older machines I thought that there might be some interesting names thrown up that I had not heard of or previously considered.

    Michael

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western NSW
    Posts
    543

    Default

    My vote would be for a Wahli combination machine.
    A lot of machine with a very small foot print.

    Mark

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    What I would like is suggestions from others of the types of machines they would like to have if subject to the types of constraints listed in the first post, as that may provide me some directions to look in and broaden my search. Being a fan of older machines I thought that there might be some interesting names thrown up that I had not heard of or previously considered.

    Michael
    Comes back to work envelope again, sorry but this is the key driver. Do you want machines capable of work that can be sold or small machines to make toy engines and the like? This is also a real driver.

    An Emco Compact 8 is a nice but very lightweight machine. Widely copied as the 9x20 lathes of variable quality.

    In theory one of those lathes has almost the same work envelope as a Chipmaster but the Chippie is 600kg and the Compact 8 is maybe 100 kg.

    The FB-2 is about the smallest, lightest mill I know of that I'd personally consider owning.

    PDW

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    Buy a 3d printer and have fun building things with that.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Hi Michael,

    Since your knowledge of machines far surpases that of mine, I fear I will be of limited help for you. I do however, wish you the best with what you decide and I hope the members of the forum will point you in the right direction with machine choice.
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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