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  1. #1
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    Default Rivnut/Nutsert Experts?

    I've been busy dumping time and money into building a mulch spreader, as documented here:
    //metalworkforums.com/f184/t193...trailer/page-9

    And have come to the conclusion that rivnuts/nutserts would probably be a better option than just tapping a thread into the 3mm wall of some RHS and hoping it'll be all good.

    I got me a Kingchrome rivnut tool from Bunnings the other day, and have headed to Ebay to find some more nuts to feed it.

    Question is, there looks to be a choice between large flange, and, I guess, not-large flange nuts (I'm looking at M8 and M10) - is the difference significant?

  2. #2
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    Default

    They seem to be pretty reasonably priced on EBay. I have seen at least one situation where they would be perfect, since the recent discussions. I might have to get some.

    Dean

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Default

    The important thing to look for is the flange that is formed underneath. The narrow flange items ideally should have the hole countersunk, so that the bolted item sits against the "support".
    Thin Sheet Nutsert is a blind threaded insert designed to provide load bearing threads in thin sheet materials. The large flange version gives the Thin Sheet Nutsert rivet nut a greater load bearing surface whilst a closed end prevents the ingress of dirt and fluids into the thread and electrical circuits.
    Large flange head provides a load bearing surface and reinforces the hole to prevent push-out.
    M 8's are at the upper limit of a hand tool, and needs to be of a good quality to be long lasting. The threaded pins have a tendency to break, if twisted/bent sideways.
    Hope this helps,
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

    Default

    I have a Eclipse rivnut tool -4, 5, 6, & 8mm sizes.No expert by any means

    It might be me and old age but the 8mm is pretty darn tough to cinch up.

    The bigger sizes 8 and upwards may need a Pneumatic tool for the extra grunt.Here in the rust capital of Australia I also wonder about corrosion
    longevity as a far as different metals go. The floor of the mulch trailer might be corrosive on fasteners and sheet.

    The fastener shops sell the rivnuts cheaper than Bunnings.

    Grahame

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    26

    Default

    When I had to work for a living rivnuts and nutserts where used by the bucketload, albeit in the smaller sizes, M3, M4 sometimes M5. To avoid corrosion, immediately prior to pulling them up, especially with the large flange ones a dollop of etch primer paint was applied to both sides of the parent metal, if access was available of course, otherwise apply the paint to the insert. The idea being to get paint onto the cut edge, and to seal the insert from ingress of moisture.
    cheers
    Bill

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Toorloo Arm, VIC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I've been busy dumping time and money into building a mulch spreader, as documented here:
    //metalworkforums.com/f184/t193...trailer/page-9

    And have come to the conclusion that rivnuts/nutserts would probably be a better option than just tapping a thread into the 3mm wall of some RHS and hoping it'll be all good.

    I got me a Kingchrome rivnut tool from Bunnings the other day, and have headed to Ebay to find some more nuts to feed it.

    Question is, there looks to be a choice between large flange, and, I guess, not-large flange nuts (I'm looking at M8 and M10) - is the difference significant?
    Not sure how your access is, but as a possible alternative can you insert captive nut plates (nuts welded to say 3mm plate) into the RHS, either floating or plug welded in?

    Given I have both a TIG and a lathe, I'd be inclined to drill a hole right through the RHS at the size of the bolt (say 8mm), and then drill the backside of the tube out bigger (maybe 13-15mm, depending on load), then insert a piece of round bar with an OD to match the larger hole, and drilled and tapped to the desired thread inside, then TIG weld the insert to the RHS on the back side. Depends on what you're attaching, but if you actually need to use 8 and 10mm bolts, I'm personally not keen on rivnuts to carry that kind of load - especially given the working environment.

    To my mind, rivnuts are great for lighter, more static loads, like a sheet metal cover on something that might need occasional removal for service, or perhaps mounting a water trap for an air compressor, but in my experience they tend to work loose from where they've been riveted if they have something heavier bouncing off them, and when you go to undo them, the buggers just spin... Just my opinion though, and I'm known to overbuild... well, everything.

  7. #7
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Perth
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    Default

    I used 6mm steel Rivnuts to install load stability rails in my Hiace Van. I considered using 8 mm but when I tried to crimp them I found it a bit hard to get a super firm fit as I don't have much hand strength.

    There are 6, 10 mm anchor points/bolts in the floor of the van that are supposed to be used to stabilise loads and I try to use these but sometimes the cannot be used and usually by the time the van is loaded these are covered up so anchoring to rails is easier. A good example of where the rails are used is carting 8 x 4 sheets standing on their long edge.

    The rails (see red arrows) are made of 20 x 3 mm Al SH Al. The rails are stood off the walls of the van using 30 mm long, 16 x 3 mm Al tubing and bolted through the rail using 6 mm bolts about every 400 mm along the rail. That means on the longest rail there are 7 rivnuts holding the rail to the van wall.

    van2.jpg

    The picture is my old van where I only had rails mid way up the walls of the van. That Van that was written off in a head on with a bloke driving whilst using his mobile phone. I managed to recover the rails and a few other things at the towing compound. I dreaded taking off the rails because I had fairly tightened up the bolts but they unscrewed OK.

    On my current Van I installed rails at the same height as the old van but added new rails higher up (see red squiggly line). That was 7 years ago - since then the rails have been used by me reasonably often especially when carting stuff for the mens shed. The van has been loaned to many relatives/friends for carting stuff and they have hung all manner of stuff off the rails and they are still firmly attached. One time my son hung about a dozen hanging baskets from the rails while moving house.

    If the load is evenly spread and you need more strength then you may get away with just adding more rivnuts.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Canberra
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    Default

    The main application for the rivnuts is to hold up the conveyor deck
    IMG_1815.jpg

    The pic above shows the old fastening points - I'll be replacing the vertical angle pieces as the deck is sitting higher than it used to. I plan to have 2 x M10 bolts at each support, and there'll be 8 supports, and the load will be pretty much strictly vertical.

    Where there's greater loads on the side rails, such as where the motor is attached, I've poked in 12mm flat bar, welded it in place and drilled and tapped into that, but doing that for these points seems overkill.

    IMG_1817.jpg

    I did a test with an M8 rivnut which came with the kit (the bolt at the right is a test of just tapping the 3mm wall). It didn't seem to take too much effort to crimp, so hopefully M10 won't be too much harder, or maybe M8 will do the job...

    The other slight concern is the resulting flange - I'm going to have to drill out the supports to 15mm (for M8, 17mm for M10) in order to get a flush fitup.

    The kit's rivnuts are smooth-sided, the Ebay ones have grooves, which I think may be less inclined to spin, and what they call "large flange" are the same size flange as those that came in the kit, so I'll probably get them.

  9. #9
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    Use the splined type. More resistance to spinning. Also make the hole as neat a fit as possible, even if you have to give the insert a little tap to get it in. Stainless may be better but you will not insert these with the tool you have. eBay seller simon705603 has good prices. Bought some 5mm and 6mm stainless from him recently.
    Nev.

  10. #10
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    Default

    It should be dead easy to make an insert tool which will use an impact driver to set the rivnut in place for the bigger sizes. My Stanley impact driver puts 100mm x 14g tek screws in without any problems. I hope it would work on larger rivnuts. I can always use the impact wrench if not.

    Dean

  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wakeup111 View Post
    The idea being to get paint onto the cut edge, and to seal the insert from ingress of moisture.
    Cheers for that - I saw someone who painted the holes on Youtube, but had forgotten why they'd done it. I should be able to spray a bit of cold gal into the hole to coat the sides.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurfinNev View Post
    Also make the hole as neat a fit as possible, even if you have to give the insert a little tap to get it in. Stainless may be better but you will not insert these with the tool you have. eBay seller simon705603 has good prices.
    That's the guy I've ordered off - he's just sent me a photo of the satchel

    I'll have to try and see how hard the M10 ones are to crimp - the tool I have is a two-armed unit: https://www.kincrome.com.au/nut-rive...-handle-68-pce

    But I agree, stainless is probably a bridge too far.

  13. #13
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    Default

    Never had the need yet, but maybe a drop or two of loctite will seal them as well as lock them in place better.
    Nev.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    If the load is evenly spread and you need more strength then you may get away with just adding more rivnuts.
    Interestingly, it was a Youtube vid of a guy (Wranglerstar) fitting out a Sprinter (I think) and attaching aluminium profiles to the side with rivnuts that made me think of using them for my application. As I explained above, there'll be 16 of them holding up the conveyor deck - I'm inclined to think that should be sufficient, but I could add more down the track.

  15. #15
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    Just had another thought. I would add some never seize to threads to prevent corrosion and to make the bolts easier to remove if necessary.
    Nev.

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