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Thread: New lathe questions (yep)
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15th Jun 2017, 11:16 AM #1Senior Member
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New lathe questions (yep)
I am just getting into metalworking as a hobby and I'd like a lathe to make:
*Parts for small robots, including small gears
*Threaded rods for 3D printers, perhaps with ACME thread
*Go kart parts at a later stage (this year, some of next), a hobby I'd like to get into
*ACME threads and parts for a router I intend to build
I'm a teacher / curious ex-engineer looking to get into some more hands on stuff, I have a mill, bandsaw, and just need a lathe to make a few more things / open up my options.
I thought I'd get a cheap Sieg for $800 then use the school lathes for larger things. This is still an appealing option for me.
Then I spotted the $1750 550x250 Optimum on sale currently which looks like a good deal for hobby work. It's half the starting point of 'serious' lathes like the $3500 Hafcos. I really like the size and what I've read about the AL-51G but it has a 21mm bore while the Optimum is 26mm. The $2300 AL-320g I was warned off against as if you want to replace the chuck you have to machine the backplate.
I've read a lot of threads now and the consensus seems to be:
* Get an old Herless lathe or second hand piece of gear, if you know how to spot a dud (I don't). It also seems to help if you're in Melb/Syd (I'm in Bris)
* Failing that spend 3.5- 4k on one of the Hare and Forbes models, NOT the AL-250G
On gumtree at the moment is a lathe that looks ok value to me:
- https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/uppe...the/1150686017
But I don't know much about inspecting such a lathe
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/brig...the/1149651003
- This one looks ok but a bit exxy.
These ones both stretch the budget.
Any recommendations? Thanks.
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15th Jun 2017, 12:02 PM #2Mechanical Butcher
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You mean Hercus (not Herless)?
For:
Not expensive as modern used Asian lathes. (Actually a bargain IMHO.)
Heaps of parts and accessories available, most second-hand some new.
Well thought out design, no silly design mistakes (unlike on some small Asian lathes).
Support from keen enthusiasts.
Against:
Not new, might be hard to find a pristine one now.
Spindle bore size not too big.
If there is no obvious wear or damage to the bedways or elsewhere, I think a Hercus worth considering.
Jordan
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15th Jun 2017, 12:29 PM #3Most Valued Member
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G'day m8, i had an al336, bought it new and had to do a few things to it to bring it up to scratch, mostly small annoying things that you should not have to deal with on a new machine. There was talk in here about casting sand in the headstocks of some these chinese lathes, checked mine and it was ok. One thing I did findbwas the saddle/appron gearbox started to fill with coolant, I found that there is a tin plate on the cross slide that is only secures by a self tapper at one end and has no sealant, i cleaned out the g/box and sealed to plate with silicone.
While i was at hare and forbes i noticed that a few of their models had this tin plate, i feel that it is such a shoddy design that even if coolant was not used small metal cuttings would likely dissappear under the plate.
The al336 l had did quite a bit of work for me, i used coolant all the time but kept the oil can busy and the lathe really showed no sign of wear, i sold it to my BIL for $2000 and he is very happy with it.
One thing i noticed when looking at s/h lathes is to have a look at the lower section of the V on the lathe bed at the chuck end for a wear line from the saddle, if you can see a line follow it back towards the tail stock and it will likely disappear after a half way up the bed. You also put an indicator stand on the cross slide with a dial indicator down onto the tailstock way 6 to 8 iinches infront of the saddle and wind the saddle towards the chuck, if the V on the bed is worn then you see the amount of wear on the indicator.
shed
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15th Jun 2017, 01:14 PM #4Philomath in training
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A couple of things to think about with that approach:
Firstly, as someone here recently discovered, these smaller machines are not all that powerful and not as rigid so it could take a while to make things - can be a frustration.
Using someone else's lathe when need greater capacity is alright but will you need to break down set ups all the time if you share with the school? While I must admit I try not to do it, on some occasions it is nice to be able to leave something in a chuck and come back later.
Finally, ACME thread is more cost effectively found on Ebay or from industrial bearing shops. Turning it yourself is possible but for any decent length it takes a relatively long time and there are problems with deflection and DOC limits due to HP. While I think having a lathe is a great idea, cutting long threads on it is not necessarily the most efficient use of it.
Michael
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15th Jun 2017, 02:36 PM #5Most Valued Member
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From memory I dont think seigs have a backgear or really a proper screwcutting setup, so you sure aren't going to be making any ACME anythings on one. For any real threading a backgear is absolutely essential, for ACME the extra torque is mandatory. That optimum looks like a much more competent machine than a seig.
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15th Jun 2017, 03:17 PM #6Senior Member
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I am leaning towards the Optimum $1750 unit - L689 | TU-2506V Bench Lathe | For Sale Sydney Brisbane Melbourne Perth | Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery online at machineryhouse.com.au - at the moment, it doesn't have a powered cross slide but that could be a fun project with a stepper motor and some software (right?). Is there anything I'm missing that's wrong with this machine?
Anything much better seems to be coming in at around 3.5k+ (double price). I really like the AL-51G size but the 21mm spindle bore is the put off. It wouldn't bother me now but might down the track.
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15th Jun 2017, 03:55 PM #7Most Valued Member
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The only downside is no backgear, and 150 rpm is pretty fast to learn how to do screwcutting but its sure as hell twice as good as a seig. Being honest, pretty much any really small lathe purchase is a great way to learn you wanted a bigger one. Before i went right into a new lathe I would at least go and see some second hand lathes in your budget. Totally up to you of course.
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15th Jun 2017, 06:28 PM #8Senior Member
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15th Jun 2017, 07:14 PM #9Golden Member
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Buying a used lathe can really pay off, you might score a heap of tooling with the machine, or at lest enough gear to start machining straight away with no further expenses //metalworkforums.com/f65/t200329-lathe
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15th Jun 2017, 07:56 PM #10Philomath in training
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Yes, but it would take a lot of time and cost in materials - probably if you added it up, more than the lathe is worth. One of the problems with the new imported machinery that is available is that spending a lot of money on customising something is that it makes poor economic sense - spend $500 making up a back gear or spend that money on the next machine up that has that feature...
I regularly tell people that if they think of buying a lathe for hobby purposes, the chances are they will end up up buying at least two as on the first one they will work out how to run it and discover the features they like/ don't like. The second will incorporate those thoughts.
Hare and Forbes currently are doing an EOFY sale. It may be worth contacting them (or visiting), explaining you are a teacher looking for a machine and see what they can do. They may also have a line on second hand machines and/ or trade in machines. They have a reputation to uphold so while you may not get the best deal on the planet, they should be able to steer you onto something to start with.
Michael
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15th Jun 2017, 08:55 PM #11Golden Member
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just take your time if you can afford to wait. This Myford Super7 with quick change gearbox was advertised for $1500 a week ago. It came with 4 jaw, face place etc.
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/kiam...box/1150273322
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15th Jun 2017, 09:29 PM #12Senior Member
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Thanks as I said before though my issue with second hand is I'm no good at spotting a dud and thus liable to get ripped off.
A forum member sent me this photo of a lathe that may be available, looks ok, great model, but I'd still feel more comfortable going for an H&F or similar.
It's an Herless SSB-5MK from 1980.
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15th Jun 2017, 10:13 PM #13Golden Member
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I just watched this last night myself. https://youtu.be/ihURTItDe2I
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15th Jun 2017, 10:46 PM #14Product designer retired
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j3dprints,
I would highly recommend a 9" Hercus or Hercus 260 for a beginner. All the bugs have been ironed out, no sand in the head castings, most parts available and all your questions answered on this forum or the Hercus area.
I'd contact forum member Mal (Allterrain50) or Australian Metalworking Hobbyist
Exciting times ahead,
Ken
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15th Jun 2017, 11:05 PM #15Most Valued Member
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You can make almost anything for anything given enough time & money. The question then reduces to, does it make sense?
For thread cutting I'd want geared speed reduction and no more than 60 rpm.
I wouldn't own a lathe with less than a 25mm spindle bore and 40mm is a lot more useful.
I wouldn't own a lathe that didn't have powered cross slide.
If you buy a lathe shaped object then spend years trying to make it into a competent machine, this becomes your hobby, not the stuff you wanted to actually make using the lathe. Same applies to a complete rebuild of an older machine of course, just your chances of ending up with a better machine improve.
I agree with Michael - if you want longish lengths of Acme thread, buy them. There is no way you can do it as well or as accurately yourself.
PDW
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